Using Tradestation for Automation

Chrisso

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Hi,
I am considering opening an account with Tradestation Securities and using TS8 for autotrading e-mini futures.

I have looked at some posts on this forum and some seem to be auto-trading with TS8 successfully and some don't.

Writing, backtesting & trading simple stategies seems like a quick and straightforward process using EasyLanguage, whereas writing a program, in C++ or Java say, to do the same job using IB's platform (as an example) would require far more time and effort.

This really does seem too good to be true! Is it?

Chris
:confused:
 
It is not as simple as it may seem. TS has limitations although the latest version is far better than what we had a couple of years ago. I do not know C++ and have written all my code in EL and poached the stuff I could not do from the forum, there are so many useful bits to take from there and it is worth reading about the issues people have had with automated execution and TS customer support. It is pretty bad. Overall however it works and for me has proved to be the best option.
 
Chrisso,

EasyLanguage is anything but ‘easy’.
Many strategies, for a multitude of reasons, ultimately need dll’s (ie real code instead of script)
During the development of a good system, you’ll discover more ‘gotcha’s’ than you could ever imagine now.
Automated TS is ‘famous’ for filling phantom orders and mysterious lifting of positions, etc. ie Don’t plan on 'turning it on and walking away’ for at least the first 3 years.
Strategies using limit orders are contra-indicated generally.
The online coding ‘community’ is but a shadow of its former self.
Their support sucks.

HOWEVER
For certain styles and applications TS is by far and away the best platform ever!
Try it - If it’s right for you, you’ll never go back…

HTH,

zdo
 
Don’t plan on 'turning it on and walking away’ for at least the first 3 years.

LOL.
I sincerely echo these sentiments. I do leave it overnight but I also suffer some nasty slippage occassionally. Had 22ticks on BP one night. That was worst but only because they bust out >35ticks from last traded.

The customer support is a real nightmare. I do not know where they find those inbreds. Best bet is to hook into one of the less moronic account managers and just hassle them for anything and everything.

Despite everything I still prefer it over anything else I have looked at or tried.
 
Thank you both for the comments. I seem to have unwittingly stirred up a bit of a hornets nest!

The business about limit orders being contra-indicated is a little scary.

Do the 3 built in stops usually work OK?

I see from the TS website & earlier posts that the latest version allows for accessing the highs and lows of the current bar and trading intra-bar. This feature suits my trading style - without it TS would be a non-starter.

Do you find that you are able to auto-trade sufficiently often to get the free rental and are there really any alternatives to TS for an 'off the shelf' rule based trading system.

Thanks again,

Chris
 
Having had a power outage for most of yesterday I'm interested to know if Tradestation runs on your computer to run the strategies or can you 'park' them on a Tradestation server i.e. would I need a proper UPS and hope the single telephone line doesn't go down. I couldn't find a simple answer to this on their website.
 
Chrisso,

In general, TS is great. TS works for someone who can code, with little real help, simple to moderately complex systems. If you do subscribe, set the intention to be a real ‘do it yourselfer’ because the help you will get across the long run can not be depended upon to be but a small factor in completing, testing, debugging, and rolling out projects. The ‘mind’ on the TS boards only tolerates a certain degree of complexity and diversity in how things are presented. Go over that limit in complexity or be to vague or general or whatever with your questions and the ‘mind’ will shutdown (or even shut you out)

TS is best hooked to their futures (or stock) brokerage only. All the other instruments, pit traded, fx, international, etc are at this time not amenable to automation, imo. If you got to do it with API's, etc, don't let me discourage you... but...

re: “The business about limit orders being contra-indicated is a little scary.” Not saying it can’t be done. Depends a lot on your timeframea and how far you’re willing to move your limit orders in from where the system would ideally be filled. All my designs now use market orders for both entry, exit, and stop loss conditions. Where the limit or stop order would have been, a market order is placed. Got tired of missing fills by a couple of tick, etc…

re: “Do the 3 built in stops usually work OK?” Yes, but I hear the occasional horror story. ‘Everyone’ has trades, fills, broker errors with their ‘name on it’ just waiting to happen. With TS, I trade futures exclusively and built in stops have never been adequate system exits for me. Had to pay the price and design and implement much more complex, proactive, robust exits. btw, I’m a below average Pascal code monkey, but I make it up with determination…
It has taken me literally years to develop some of my projects…

re: “I see from the TS website & earlier posts that the latest version allows for accessing the highs and lows of the current bar and trading intra-bar. This feature suits my trading style - without it TS would be a non-starter.” Intrabar is a good feature addition, better for testing than live trading. Having had to come up the hard way, signals are built off a higher time frame, but I actually run and execute systems on a tick chart with market orders. Recently, the capabilities for using multiple time frames have been GREATLY enhanced by a subscriber contribution called ADE, which allows a user designed global collection structure (a rudimentary database if you will). Tough learning curve for me, but worth it in multiples…

re: “Do you find that you are able to auto-trade sufficiently often to get the free rental” That depends on your timeframe(s) and system(s). Again, TS is best hooked to their futures (or stock) brokerage only. With a linked brokerage account, the platform is only $100 per month plus exchange fees. You would only need to start up at a scale to make that expense an insignificant amount and not give any consideration about making a minimum number of trades per month. Again, this is just my opinion, but anyone who gives commission, platform, and feed costs a consideration because it’s ‘damaging’ the bottom line has a problem with something very fundamental about playing this game – usually it’s under capitalization, sometimes overtrading, sometimes undertrading, sometimes…

re: “and are there really any alternatives to TS for an 'off the shelf' rule based trading system” Nothing’s quite as 'ubiquitous' as TS yet… more and more are rolling their own! The objects are available. If they don't add subminute (to the thousanth second) time-stamping soon, they'll be left by the wayside...

all the best,

zdo
 
Tuffty said:
Having had a power outage for most of yesterday I'm interested to know if Tradestation runs on your computer to run the strategies or can you 'park' them on a Tradestation server i.e. would I need a proper UPS and hope the single telephone line doesn't go down. I couldn't find a simple answer to this on their website.

Tuffty,

With TS (and any platform), you ARE EXPOSED period!
Enter distant emergency stops everyday!
Have order desk phone numbers in phone and cell speed dial - but don't depend on them to answer when you really need them to.

TS runs on local wkstation.
Confirmed orders have made it to their server. That's all.

You need good UPS, redundant backup for data, code, layouts, etc.
And more than a landbased single phone line. Go to at least low level T1

This is 'experience' talking here
(One can learn lessons by own experiences AND by the experiences of others.)

hth

zdo
 
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