Firewalker's Journey: A path of discovery in search for enlightenment

This is a discussion on Firewalker's Journey: A path of discovery in search for enlightenment within the Trading Journals forums, part of the Reception category; Originally Posted by dbphoenix Take the responsibility. Post your trading plan. Trade it. Compare what you did with what you ...

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Old Aug 23, 2006, 7:32am   #316
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphoenix
Take the responsibility. Post your trading plan. Trade it. Compare what you did with what you planned to do. Or whine. It's up to you.
For the sakes of I don't know what reason anymore, I posted my preparation for today late last night (local time) so anybody living in the US would have got time enough to look at it before the opening. I hope this time you can guide me constructively through the following stages instead of giving me pointless* tasks that do not benefit me at all.

*Pointless = apparently serving no useful purpose [if there was a purpose I would assume you've told me after I looked and asked a couple of times]
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 7:43am   #317
 
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I'll repeat this to myself over and over again

firewalker99 started this thread The right mindset needs to be implemented into your plan. Simply knock down the barriers of the ego and learn that you don’t know everything. Once a trader realizes that he is just a pawn in the midst of dragons, it is at this point that they can begin to progress to that state of an optimal mindset. This will take time and determination, but it is a necessary path that a trader needs to endure if they wish to remain in this business for the long term. Trade without emotion and continue to learn a new lesson everyday. Challenge others opinions based on your perceptions of the market with an open mind in order to bring to light wrong ideas and accept those thoughts that are true...
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 1:35pm   #318
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firewalker99
For the sakes of I don't know what reason anymore, I posted my preparation for today late last night (local time) so anybody living in the US would have got time enough to look at it before the opening. I hope this time you can guide me constructively through the following stages instead of giving me pointless* tasks that do not benefit me at all.

*Pointless = apparently serving no useful purpose [if there was a purpose I would assume you've told me after I looked and asked a couple of times]
From Aug 3, previously posted twice:

Quote:
1. Pre-market, post charts of the previous day, the previous week, the previous month. Plot whatever S/R lines you need for the current day.

2. State where you plan to go long or short after the open and why (no theory).

3. State what your stop is going to be and why (no theory).

4. State what your target(s) is(are) and why (no theory).

5. State how and where you're going to exit and why (no theory).
If you see no point in planning out your trading day in advance, then don't do it. It's your money.
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 2:48pm   #319
 
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trading plan

firewalker99 started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphoenix
If you see no point in planning out your trading day in advance, then don't do it. It's your money.
I didn't see the point in reposting the same thing yet again (#85, #107, #112,...), as this thread already has a low enough signal/noise ratio and the "plan" hasn't changed.

For the record a review:

1. Pre-market, post charts of the previous day, the previous month, the previous 6 months. Plot whatever S/R lines you need for the current day.
-> #341

2. State where you plan to go long or short after the open and why (no theory).
-> Long exactly on the line that becomes S after breaktrough R
-> Short exactly on the line that becomes R after breaktrough S
-> Entry with two contracts simultaneously.
-> Taking everyline S/R line available from #341

3. State what your stop is going to be and why (no theory).
-> Stop = ATR. Why? It's dynamic and objective.

4. State what your target(s) is(are) and why (no theory).
-> First target = 2x ATR, second target = 3x ATR
Why? At minimum I would want risk:reward of 1:2.

5. State how and where you're going to exit and why (no theory).
-> Exit at stop or when target is reached. After first target is reached, move stop to breakeven.
Why? I will want to lock in any possible profits.

Last edited by firewalker99; Aug 23, 2006 at 3:19pm. Reason: edit: "week" changed into "month"
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 3:17pm   #320
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firewalker99
I didn't see the point in reposting the same thing yet again (#85, #107, #112,...), as this thread already has a low enough signal/noise ratio and the "plan" hasn't changed.
The point is so that everyone knows what your current plan is, which is why I asked for your current plan. Since this is different from what you posted yesterday, is this your current plan? If so, there are a number of things missing from what you posted last night.

Again, you are in complete control of this process. You can stop anytime you want to.
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 3:21pm   #321
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphoenix
The point is so that everyone knows what your current plan is, which is why I asked for your current plan. Since this is different from what you posted yesterday, is this your current plan? If so, there are a number of things missing from what you posted last night.

Again, you are in complete control of this process. You can stop anytime you want to.
What I posted yesterday was a preparation based on the setup you asked me to post.
What I posted today, is the plan for during the day, which isn't different from before to my knowledge. The only thing "missing" is the exact numbers where to enter. They can easily be read of the chart as the S/R levels are enumerated in the post of yesterday. Exit and target depend on ATR.
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 3:39pm   #322
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firewalker99
What I posted yesterday was a preparation based on the setup you asked me to post.
What I posted today, is the plan for during the day, which isn't different from before to my knowledge. The only thing "missing" is the exact numbers where to enter. They can easily be read of the chart as the S/R levels are enumerated in the post of yesterday. Exit and target depend on ATR.
I asked that you post your trading plan. "Check what happens" is not sufficient.

What you posted last night is only the first step. You then have to go on to supply the remainder of the information. Again:

2. State where you plan to go long or short after the open and why (no theory).

3. State what your stop is going to be and why (no theory).

4. State what your target(s) is(are) and why (no theory).

5. State how and where you're going to exit and why (no theory).


All in one place. All in one post. All together.

Try again after the close.
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 3:48pm   #323
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphoenix
I asked that you post your trading plan. "Check what happens" is not sufficient.
.
I said "I will also check what happens when price approaches PDH, PDL, PDC." in the addendum of that post. This means I will not act or think to act in any way around these points, only observe. Anyway, if you find that not sufficient than just leave the addendum out of it instead of being selective of what you choose to comment on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphoenix
What you posted last night is only the first step. You then have to go on to supply the remainder of the information. Again:...
Try again after the close.
Apparently what you mean isn't sinking in. Perhaps you can put up a NQ chart of yesterday with an - imaginary or whatever kind of - plan with exactly what it is you mean by "state how and when..." and we can all start learning something. Last time I checked and did this (about 1 month ago), the same information I post today and yesterday was valid, but suddenly it isn't anymore. Making me doubt everything, makes me only doubt you.

*Edit: and please don't call me lazy this time, because I haven't ignored one single task or exercise you gave me. I doubt that any other newbies who where thinking of opening a journal, will be very inclined to do so after seeing how this is developing. But then again, I guess that's none of your concern. Nevertheless a pity for those who did have the potential.

Last edited by firewalker99; Aug 23, 2006 at 4:00pm.
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 4:10pm   #324
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firewalker99



Apparently what you mean isn't sinking in. Perhaps you can put up a NQ chart of yesterday with an - imaginary or whatever kind of - plan with exactly what it is you mean by "state how and when..." and we can all start learning something. Last time I checked and did this (about 1 month ago), the same information I post today and yesterday was valid, but suddenly it isn't anymore. Making me doubt everything, makes me only doubt you.

*Edit: and please don't call me lazy this time, because I haven't ignored one single task or exercise you gave me. I doubt that any other newbies who where thinking of opening a journal, will be very inclined to do so after seeing how this is developing. But then again, I guess that's none of your concern. Nevertheless a pity for those who did have the potential.
The last time you did this, you said that you saw no point in posting a plan ahead of time, nor did you see any point in analyzing a chart in real time. You preferred to review the chart at the end of the day. However, this is not how one learns to trade in real time. So, yes, you have ignored tasks I've given you, or at least abandoned them without ever really having started them.

So, assuming that you plan to trade every single one of these levels,

Long term S/R levels:
6200,

2. State where you plan to go long or short after the open and why (no theory).

3. State what your stop is going to be and why (no theory).

4. State what your target(s) is(are) and why (no theory).

5. State how and where you're going to exit and why (no theory).

5950,

2. State where you plan to go long or short after the open and why (no theory).

3. State what your stop is going to be and why (no theory).

4. State what your target(s) is(are) and why (no theory).

5. State how and where you're going to exit and why (no theory).

5800,

2. State where you plan to go long or short after the open and why (no theory).

3. State what your stop is going to be and why (no theory).

4. State what your target(s) is(are) and why (no theory).

5. State how and where you're going to exit and why (no theory).

5750,

2. State where you plan to go long or short after the open and why (no theory).

3. State what your stop is going to be and why (no theory).

4. State what your target(s) is(are) and why (no theory).

5. State how and where you're going to exit and why (no theory).

And so on.

Of course, if you don't plan on trading each and every one of these levels, then your prep won't be this extensive. More likely there will be only two to four levels you intend to trade. But it's up to you to decide what those will be.

As I said, you're in control of the process.
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 11:28pm   #325
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphoenix
2. State where you plan to go long or short after the open and why (no theory).
Doesn't "after the open" has to be changed into "during the whole day"?
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 11:45pm   #326
 
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August 24: Preparation...

firewalker99 started this thread August 24: Preparation

Setup:
- Put up a chart of the past months and draw long term S/R lines.
- Put up a chart of the last month and draw intermediate term S/R lines.
- Put up yesterday's chart and draw short term S/R lines.
- Before the day opens, make sure these lines are visible on today's chart.
- Draw new S/R lines throughout the day, wherever applicable.
- Pay closer attention when price moves towards a S/R zone.
- Check if price breaks this level or reverses from it.
- If it breaks through, check if it's happening on a WRB closing above the middle (doesn't have to be one single bar).
- Check how far price moves above the R (or below the S).
- If price moves away for 10 points, then wait for a retracement back to the line.
- When the retracement happens, there you have a trade.

Plan:

Long term S/R levels:
6200, 5950, 5800, 5750, 5575, 5400, 5300

Medium term S/R levels:
5850, 5825, 5775, 5750 ,5725, 5615

Short term S/R levels:
5830, 5810, 5795, 5772.50

Take only long and medium term S/R levels that appear on the chart of the next day and are within a "reasonable" range of the previous trading day ranges. E.g. 6200 or 5300 are outside of that.

5850: Long after price breaks up through this level on upside and moves to 5860 or further, before recoiling back to the line. Stop is at ATR, first target is 2x ATR, second 3x ATR, because ATR is dynamic and objective. Enter with two contracts, two different targets, definining a minimum risk/reward of 1:2. After first target hit, move stop to BE. This then defines the exit.

5825: Long after price breaks up through this level on upside and moves to 5835 or further, before recoiling back to the line. Stop is at ATR, first target is 2x ATR, second 3x ATR, because ATR is dynamic and objective. Enter with two contracts, two different targets, definining a minimum risk/reward of 1:2. After first target hit, move stop to BE. This then defines the exit.

5775: Long after price breaks up through this level on upside and moves to 5785 or further, before recoiling back to the line. Stop is at ATR, first target is 2x ATR, second 3x ATR, because ATR is dynamic and objective. Enter with two contracts, two different targets, definining a minimum risk/reward of 1:2. After first target hit, move stop to BE. This then defines the exit.

5750: Long after price breaks up through this level on upside and moves to 5760 or further, before recoiling back to the line. Stop is at ATR, first target is 2x ATR, second 3x ATR, because ATR is dynamic and objective. Enter with two contracts, two different targets, definining a minimum risk/reward of 1:2. After first target hit, move stop to BE. This then defines the exit.

5725: Long after price breaks up through this level on upside and moves to 5735 or further, before recoiling back to the line. Stop is at ATR, first target is 2x ATR, second 3x ATR, because ATR is dynamic and objective. Enter with two contracts, two different targets, definining a minimum risk/reward of 1:2. After first target hit, move stop to BE. This then defines the exit.

In turn, this depends on where price opens the next day: taking only long position of course when the trend is up and price is moving up through that resistance level, shorting when the general trend is down and prive breaks the support. For instance:

5775: Short after price drops through this level on downside and moves to 5765 or further, before recoiling back to the line. Stop is at ATR, first target is 2x ATR, second 3x ATR, because ATR is dynamic and objective. Enter with two contracts, two different targets, definining a minimum risk/reward of 1:2. After first target hit, move stop to BE. This then defines the exit.

5750: Short after price drops through this level on downside and moves to 5740 or further, before recoiling back to the line. Stop is at ATR, first target is 2x ATR, second 3x ATR, because ATR is dynamic and objective. Enter with two contracts, two different targets, definining a minimum risk/reward of 1:2. After first target hit, move stop to BE. This then defines the exit.

5725: Short after price drops through this level on downside and moves to 5715 or further, before recoiling back to the line. Stop is at ATR, first target is 2x ATR, second 3x ATR, because ATR is dynamic and objective. Enter with two contracts, two different targets, definining a minimum risk/reward of 1:2. After first target hit, move stop to BE. This then defines the exit.

Let me know what's still missing.
Attached Thumbnails
dax6months.gif   dax1month.gif   dax1day2.gif  


Last edited by firewalker99; Aug 24, 2006 at 12:39pm. Reason: "entry possibility" changed into "trade"
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Old Aug 23, 2006, 11:54pm   #327
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphoenix
The last time you did this, you said that you saw no point in posting a plan ahead of time, nor did you see any point in analyzing a chart in real time. You preferred to review the chart at the end of the day. However, this is not how one learns to trade in real time. So, yes, you have ignored tasks I've given you, or at least abandoned them without ever really having started them.
When I said all those things, you perhaps could have replied with a clear statement as to why it is useful. If a teacher is trying to convince a student to learn his differential formulas by heart, the student will much better understand why he's asked to do that, if the teacher subsequently says differentials can be used in various applications, like calculating areas or volume of spheres, etc... Without that knowledge the student will remain unmotivated and only study it because he wants to pass his exam, without ever having learnt the purpose of it all.
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Old Aug 24, 2006, 12:00am   #328
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firewalker99
When I said all those things, you perhaps could have replied with a clear statement as to why it is useful. If a teacher is trying to convince a student to learn his differential formulas by heart, the student will much better understand why he's asked to do that, if the teacher subsequently says differentials can be used in various applications, like calculating areas or volume of spheres, etc... Without that knowledge the student will remain unmotivated and only study it because he wants to pass his exam, without ever having learnt the purpose of it all.
Tell you what, FW, if you want to continue arguing, I'm afraid you're going to have to go it alone. You have said repeatedly that you don't want to be told, you don't want explanations, you want to be involved, and yet you flee from involvement at every turn, at least until you finally stopped arguing and got down to the work, which I'll address in the next post.

As for your motivation, that's to stop failing and to stop losing money. If that's insufficient motivation, then the sheer joy of doing the work is not likely to be sufficient, either.

Now, can we get on with the work?
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Old Aug 24, 2006, 12:20am   #329
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firewalker99
August 24: Preparation

Setup:
- Put up a chart of the past months and draw long term S/R lines.
- Put up a chart of the last month and draw intermediate term S/R lines.
- Put up yesterday's chart and draw short term S/R lines.
- Before the day opens, make sure these lines are visible on today's chart.
- Draw new S/R lines throughout the day, wherever applicable.
- Pay closer attention when price moves towards a S/R zone.
- Check if price breaks this level or reverses from it.
- If it breaks through, check if it's happening on a WRB closing above the middle (doesn't have to be one single bar).
- Check how far price moves above the R (or below the S).
- If price moves away for 10 points, then wait for a retracement back to the line.
- When the retracement happens, there you have a entry possibility.
---

Plan:

Long term S/R levels:
6200, 5950, 5800, 5750, 5575, 5400, 5300

Medium term S/R levels:
5850, 5825, 5775, 5750 ,5725, 5615

Short term S/R levels:
5830, 5810, 5795, 5772.50

Take only long and medium term S/R levels that appear on the chart of the next day and are within a "reasonable" range of the previous trading day ranges. E.g. 6200 or 5300 are outside of that.

5850: Long after price breaks up through this level on upside and moves to 5860 or further, before recoiling back to the line. Stop is at ATR, first target is 2x ATR, second 3x ATR, because ATR is dynamic and objective. Enter with two contracts, two different targets, definining a minimum risk/reward of 1:2. After first target hit, move stop to BE. This then defines the exit.

5825: Long after price breaks up through this level on upside and moves to 5835 or further, before recoiling back to the line. Stop is at ATR, first target is 2x ATR, second 3x ATR, because ATR is dynamic and objective. Enter with two contracts, two different targets, definining a minimum risk/reward of 1:2. After first target hit, move stop to BE. This then defines the exit.

5775: Long after price breaks up through this level on upside and moves to 5785 or further, before recoiling back to the line. Stop is at ATR, first target is 2x ATR, second 3x ATR, because ATR is dynamic and objective. Enter with two contracts, two different targets, definining a minimum risk/reward of 1:2. After first target hit, move stop to BE. This then defines the exit.

5750: Long after price breaks up through this level on upside and moves to 5760 or further, before recoiling back to the line. Stop is at ATR, first target is 2x ATR, second 3x ATR, because ATR is dynamic and objective. Enter with two contracts, two different targets, definining a minimum risk/reward of 1:2. After first target hit, move stop to BE. This then defines the exit.

5725: Long after price breaks up through this level on upside and moves to 5735 or further, before recoiling back to the line. Stop is at ATR, first target is 2x ATR, second 3x ATR, because ATR is dynamic and objective. Enter with two contracts, two different targets, definining a minimum risk/reward of 1:2. After first target hit, move stop to BE. This then defines the exit.

In turn, this depends on where price opens the next day: taking only long position of course when the trend is up and price is moving up through that resistance level, shorting when the general trend is down and prive breaks the support. For instance:

5775: Short after price drops through this level on downside and moves to 5765 or further, before recoiling back to the line. Stop is at ATR, first target is 2x ATR, second 3x ATR, because ATR is dynamic and objective. Enter with two contracts, two different targets, definining a minimum risk/reward of 1:2. After first target hit, move stop to BE. This then defines the exit.

5750: Short after price drops through this level on downside and moves to 5740 or further, before recoiling back to the line. Stop is at ATR, first target is 2x ATR, second 3x ATR, because ATR is dynamic and objective. Enter with two contracts, two different targets, definining a minimum risk/reward of 1:2. After first target hit, move stop to BE. This then defines the exit.

5725: Short after price drops through this level on downside and moves to 5715 or further, before recoiling back to the line. Stop is at ATR, first target is 2x ATR, second 3x ATR, because ATR is dynamic and objective. Enter with two contracts, two different targets, definining a minimum risk/reward of 1:2. After first target hit, move stop to BE. This then defines the exit.

Let me know what's still missing.

This is a remarkable improvement. For the most part, this tells you exactly what to do during the trading day (the "whole day" occurs after the open). However, there are a few areas that will likely cause problems (or caused, if all of this has by now passed.

One has to do with the proximity of the intermediate and short-term S/R levels. If you have S/R drawn at both 5825 and 5830, this is likely to cause hesitation at best, confusion and inaction at worst. You need to reconcile these two into one tradeable level. Ditto 5772.50 and 5775. If you make these reconciliations, you'll be able to combine the tactics for intermediate and short-term levels into a total of eight, rather than a total of ten. Having all of this done ahead of time will enable you, after you begin your work for the day, to focus on those levels where price is at the time and not have to formulate tactics on the fly when you are likely not at your best.

Two, if a given S/R level has not changed from one day to the next, there's no need to repeat all of this for the following day. Change only what changes. Leave alone what is not changed. Just transfer what is unchanged to the next day's plan as is.

Third, you don't state your ATR setting.

Fourth, I may have missed it, but you don't say how you're going to enter your trades. Are you going to set a limit order at your S/R level and ignore which way price is travelling? Or are you going to wait until it reverses and begins to move in the desired direction? If the latter, how many ticks (or whatever)? And what order type will you use? Why entry "possibility"? The point of this is to define the conditions under which you'll act. Either you'll enter or you won't. The time to determine whether it's go/no go is beforehand, not in real time.

Fifth, you don't explain how WRBs will affect your decision to go/not go, if at all. If they won't, introducing them will only add to the variables, and the fewer, the better.

Sixth (edit), it is not uncommon for newcomers to have trouble shifting from long to short and back again. If this is a problem, then write separate plans for each, just as you've done. If it's not a problem and you're used to flipping back and forth, there's no need to write two plans.

Congratulations. This is very nearly something that somebody could actually trade.
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Old Aug 24, 2006, 12:42am   #330
 
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Moving along, suggested alterations.

Note that S/R is not necessarily determined by swing points; it's determined by what levels cause price to fail. Here, price fails repeatedly to hold above 5825. That makes 5825 the problem for buyers, not 5830. Note also that 30 is tested twice; 25 is tested 7-8 times.
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