The Problem with Technical Analysis

This is a discussion on The Problem with Technical Analysis within the Technical Analysis forums, part of the Methods category; Originally Posted by wisefoolx What do people mean by removing price from the chart - you mean taking it off ...

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Old Sep 6, 2017, 4:36pm   #25
 
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Originally Posted by wisefoolx View Post
What do people mean by removing price from the chart - you mean taking it off the y axis ?
That's a beginning. One can then better see that the basis of technical analysis is trader behavior and where and when and how they are trading. One can use numbers and math and calculations if he pleases, but that is an additional layer to the analysis, not the basis of the analysis itself.

Look at your charts without any lines of any kind, including price lines and time intervals. You should be able to see waves of buying and selling without interference.

These posts may be of interest to you:

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/trad...ml#post2796154

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/trad...ml#post2797626
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Old Sep 6, 2017, 4:41pm   #26
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Originally Posted by wisefoolx View Post
What do people mean by removing price from the chart - you mean taking it off the y axis ?
Yes, I am (personally), then you are left only with movement and time, then TA becomes about price movement.

What has happened over the years is that individuals have tried to devise/develop an indicator by reverse engineering numerical data to represent something of value, (whatever it may be).

Thus real TA has been lost, until the user of the information decides to re-define it, and unlocks the nuts and bolts of what is really being represented.
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Old Sep 6, 2017, 7:40pm   #27
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wisefoolx started this thread Remember I am concerned only with OBJECTIVITY not what works or not - that is an individual choice.

I not sure how removing the price is objective since it is not a calculation and waves and lines are still products of numbers.

Charts are charts and to make sense they must have a y and x axis, without the dependent axis (y) then the independent axis (x) is redundant which makes no sense. May as well dump the chart altogether.

As said , you could use both, there's no law against that.

Last edited by wisefoolx; Sep 6, 2017 at 8:58pm.
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Old Sep 6, 2017, 7:53pm   #28
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Remember I am concerned only with OBJECTIVITY not what works or not - that is an individual choice.
Objectively it doesn't work because you cannot demonstrate it to work. This is not your choice, it is what the market imposes on you.
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Old Sep 6, 2017, 7:54pm   #29
 
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Originally Posted by wisefoolx View Post
Remember I am concerned only with OBJECTIVITY not what works or not - that is an individual choice.

I not sure how removing the price is objective since it is not a calculation and waves and lines are still products of numbers.

Charts are charts and to make sense they must have a y and x axis, without the dependent axis (y) then the independent axis (y) is redundant which makes no sense. May as well dump the chart altogether.

As said , you could use both, there's no law against that.
Waves are the product of -- the result of -- trades. They are objective because the peak of the wave, e.g., yesterday's high, is not the result of what anyone feels about it but of the highest trade made yesterday. Anyone who cares to look it up can determine what the high was and it will be agreed upon by everyone who is aware of it. It doesn't require "settings", nor in fact does it even require a chart.

You are correct that price is not a calculation; it is the result of a completed -- a mutually agreed-upon -- trade.

As for dumping charts, many people do, such as those who trade the ladder. Charts are merely another form of graphic display.
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Old Sep 6, 2017, 8:58pm   #30
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Originally Posted by dbphoenix View Post
Waves are the product of -- the result of -- trades. They are objective because the peak of the wave, e.g., yesterday's high, is not the result of what anyone feels about it but of the highest trade made yesterday. Anyone who cares to look it up can determine what the high was and it will be agreed upon by everyone who is aware of it. It doesn't require "settings", nor in fact does it even require a chart.

You are correct that price is not a calculation; it is the result of a completed -- a mutually agreed-upon -- trade.

As for dumping charts, many people do, such as those who trade the ladder. Charts are merely another form of graphic display.
I think this is semantical, essentially we are saying same thing but you are confusing cause and effect.

As far as the maths basis of charts go , which is what I am mainly concerned about. Every chart must have a y and an x axis, the dependent axis (y) depends on the independent axis (x).

So every future point in time will have a corresponding price sometime in future, even when there are temporary price gaps.

In maths this is the dependent variable price (y) depending on the independent (x) time, and this is the law when it comes to charts, and it is totally objective. Therefore price IS a calculation by time, every price is calculated by what time it is . These are the effects.

So Whaever the cause behind the production of price , eg) what people agree upon or feel about an irrelevant issue but is may be what traders need to solve to be profitable.

Repeating once again - This is a discussion purely about the objective CALCULATION of TA. Removing the y axis would seem to further the subjectivity of the chart, indeed half a chart and this to me is UNOBJECTIVE and I would be very sceptical of that.

Last edited by wisefoolx; Sep 6, 2017 at 8:59pm. Reason: x
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Old Sep 6, 2017, 9:07pm   #31
 
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Originally Posted by wisefoolx View Post
I think this is semantical, essentially we are saying same thing but you are confusing cause and effect.

As far as the maths basis of charts go , which is what I am mainly concerned about. Every chart must have a y and an x axis, the dependent axis (y) depends on the independent axis (x).

So every future point in time will have a corresponding price sometime in future, even when there are temporary price gaps.

In maths this is the dependent variable price (y) depending on the independent (x) time, and this is the law when it comes to charts, and it is totally objective. Therefore price IS a calculation by time, every price is calculated by what time it is . These are the effects.

So Whaever the cause behind the production of price , eg) what people agree upon or feel about an irrelevant issue but is may be what traders need to solve to be profitable.

Repeating once again - This is a discussion purely about the objective CALCULATION of TA. Removing the y axis would seem to further the subjectivity of the chart, indeed half a chart and this to me is UNOBJECTIVE and I would be very sceptical of that.
My apologies. I misunderstood the purpose of your thread, taking "the problem with technical analysis" literally.

Your thesis appears to be based on the ability to predict future price as a result of past price. No one has ever been able to demonstrate that this can be done. And it is unlikely that anyone will ever be able to do so due to the nature of trading.

But best of luck to you.
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Old Sep 6, 2017, 9:38pm   #32
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My apologies. I misunderstood the purpose of your thread, taking "the problem with technical analysis" literally.

Your thesis appears to be based on the ability to predict future price as a result of past price. No one has ever been able to demonstrate that this can be done. And it is unlikely that anyone will ever be able to do so due to the nature of trading.

But best of luck to you.

No apology needed but you might think about not deliberately misleading people. I doubt if you even read the article properly before jumping to your own conclusions regardless of what it said:

Very simple really, we as traders are trying to forecast where future prices might be.

Where is the word predict in this ? I said " Forecast" and that is not the same and has a particular meaning in maths.

The first line reads originally in bold no less:

The problem with TA is simple, it's in its calculation, which is hardly ever objective and almost always subjective

The subject in the " thesis " as you called it, is very very clear, NO PREDICTION there. How did you missread that ? Either you must have bad eyes or you are deliberately cognitively dissonant.

So the rest of your rant is irrelevant, and I think you will need more luck then I; one for predicting prices on charts without axis no less and two for taking things so personally without justification.
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