Tom Williams, volume spread analysis and Tradeguider

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OpenMind

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This is a thread to discuss the volume spread analysis methodology of Tom Williams and the TradeGuider software. I hope there are enough TW fans on T2W to keep this going.

There are various references to these topics on T2W, hopefully this thread will give the VSA enthusiasts to a single meeting place.

Please let's stick to the topic, this thread is not to discuss indicators, or broader price-volume issues, for which there are other well-established threads. This thread is to discuss Tom Williams' methods.
 
Go on, I will start you off in your discussions.

He has three favourite sayings:~

Saying No. 1 = "Futures are Death".

Saying No. 2 = "Currencies are Very Dangerous, ...very..VERY.. dangerous".

Saying No. 3 = "When you see weakness in the background.....Keep Shorting...Just Keep Shorting....."
 
I bought the Tradeguider (EOD) program years ago when it was called VSA. I also bought Tom Williams book.

I found the book interesting but the software as useless as it was expensive. The VSA indicators, although looking fantastic in retrospect, do not appear in real time. In case I do not make myself clear, a triangle or oblong shown on the chart on, say, Wednesday is not actually placed there by the software until Thursday or Friday. Similarly, indicators 'that did not get it right' disappear. When you read the S&C advertising blurb about the quality of the indicators take it with at least one bucket of salt - preferably 2.

If I am doing something wrong and there is anyone out there who knows how to use this program to make profits I shall be delighted to hear from them, re-load the program and join in the discussion.

I am not holding my breath.
 
Socy,

I've never heard Tom say any of those things.

Tut, and since you used to give out his book I thought you were one of Tom's followers.

Guess you leaders don't follow, eh ?

By the way, the latest version of his book has many of the typos and errors of the first edition corrected.

The Tradeguider software's 'signals' aren't meant to be traded, but instead show areas of activity, based on VSA (Wyckoff) principles that may be interesting. Many 'don't amount to a hill of beans', its up to the trader to determine trend, support, resistance etc.

IMHO, the book is great for getting you to think about buyers and sellers activities, instead of patterns and indicators. Although I don't agree with everything he writes, I highly recommend it.

Porks
 
LevII said:
The VSA indicators, although looking fantastic in retrospect, do not appear in real time. In case I do not make myself clear, a triangle or oblong shown on the chart on, say, Wednesday is not actually placed there by the software until Thursday or Friday. Similarly, indicators 'that did not get it right' disappear.
Click to expand...

I know this observation was made about the old VSA. I must admit I have not noticed indicators disappearing but then I haven't used it for that long, so I will keep a record from now on just to see if this is still the case.

I look at TG as a learning tool, not as a black box. After all this is just price volume analysis. So if one has mastered the principles one should be able to trade off any software that shows high, low, close and volume.

I had a chat with Tom Williams recently and he mentioned that he believes TG people have gone a bit over the top: they have created about 400 supply-demand indicators! One of my goals in this thread is to identify 5 or so most reliable supply-demand formations so one can create a viable trading plan using them.

Another objective of this thread is to define some of the supply-demand formations which are reasonably important but (I feel) are not well defined either in the book or in TG.
 
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OpenMind,

If you use the indicator scanner you will also find the same appearance / disappearance tricks.
 
Openmind,

Here's a classic VSA as I understand it :

Short entry:

Sign of weakness (High vol up bar after a recent climb in price) followed a few bars later(after a small pullback) by an upthrust (test)


Exact parameters depend on timeframe, S and R, etc. Tom's focus is on bars, whereas it might help to merge bars together(or look at the higher timeframe) to confirm the supply/demand pressures

Also similar to a low volume test or a 'W' pattern(inverted)

You'll find many that work and many that don't work, but for me it's the activity that causes this to form that's interesting.


Porks
 
Here is something else for you to discuss among yourselves:~

Favourite Saying No.4 = " These lines...you know....that show a trend....they seem to work....don't ask me.....all I know is they appear to work......but I (don't know) cannot tell you exactly the reason why".
 
And here is another before I forget :~

Favourite Saying No. 5 = "It is not necessary to give all this spin.....you give it spin....unnecessary spin.......just tell them to read the book....that is all they need....it is all in the book...that's all they need".
 
With regard to discussions "outside the book" :~

Favourite saying No. 6 =

"What do you discuss with these people who come to see you ?".

"What is there to discuss any further......it is all in the book.....just tell them to read the book, it is all in there.......you just give all of this a lot of spin......too much spin....it is not necessary....it is all in the book anyway.....just tell them to read the book".
 
Favourite saying No. 7 =

"Strength appears on down bars and weakness appears on up bars".
 
Favourite saying No.8 =

"You've got it all wrong, absolutely wrong, you know......it is not like what you say at all......... if I am a dealer and I am auctioning this tablespoon and I ask a price which is too high....well....nobody buys it...and then if I auction it again......and this time ....the price is much lower.....people will buy it........... because people cannot resist a bargain".
 
Favourite saying No. 9 =

"You do not know anything about Volume.....you tell people the wrong things...you know....you give all this a lot of spin which is not necessary.........if you wanted people to properly understand.....you would get them all into a room....and sit them each behind a computer screen with a live datafeed.....for them to see the bars....and then...you ought to organise a competition.........and then you ought to go round ........and you ought to tell them each ......what they did wrong....and what they did right".
 
What's with all the "quotes" Soc? Sure, I've heard him mention some of them, but why don't you comment on them to point out where you think he is right or wrong?

Thought this thread was for discussing the different aspects of Tom Williams methodology, not just quoting him...
 
Favourite saying No. 10 =

"Here you see on this chart...........what does this mean ?"

"Any offers ? Anyone ?"

(To me) ....You keep quiet ...because you know the answers....

"Anyone ?"

"**********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
(this is the clock ticking away)****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

"No ?"

"Well, look at it .....it is SCREAMING at you !".

"Well I mean to say....it is obvious...is it not ?"

"Well, if you do not understand this, you must be stupid......because it is obvious, is it not ?"

"If you do not understand what I have just explained to you.....you should not be trading....because it is obvious".
 
Skog said:
What's with all the "quotes" Soc? Sure, I've heard him mention some of them, but why don't you comment on them to point out where you think he is right or wrong?

Thought this thread was for discussing the different aspects of Tom Williams methodology, not just quoting him...
Click to expand...

Because these quotes are on topic and they are for your benefit, for you to discuss among yourselves and not with me.
 
Favourite saying No. 11.

"You see this?.....it is a test....but the volume is high..........for a test to be successful the volume must be low"........."You have got it all wrong again...."
 
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