Mac vs PC

This is a discussion on Mac vs PC within the Techies Corner forums, part of the Trading Career category; Originally Posted by BSD Well, all I know: Years and years of PC's were years and years of regular crashes, ...

View Poll Results: Mac or a PC
Apple 48 57.14%
Microsoft 36 42.86%
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Old Feb 27, 2008, 11:41am   #31
 
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Originally Posted by BSD View Post
Well, all I know:

Years and years of PC's were years and years of regular crashes, freezes and, on top of that, just one massive pain in the neck with clunky, unelegant software that was all kinds of things but not intuitive nor user-friendly.

Apple may not be perfect, but in the two odd years I've had it I have had had zero crashes and zero freezes, and software that a kindergarten kid could learn how to operate in a jiffy without having to look at a manual ever.

To me a computer is a means to an end.

As a user I shouldn't have to learn how to program nor be burdened by unbelievable and unbelievably unnecessary complexity, by a necessity to do endless fiddling around with step after step after step as with a PC to for example do nothing more complicated than delete a program, when an Apple allows you to do the same thing in one step (!), as a user I should have a tool that is self-explanatory and intuitive to use.

Apple may not be perfect, but from what's available right now they are as close as it gets to that ideal.

The ideal will be reached once you are totally hassle free, no more folders, ie like Flickr, you just tell the program what to look for, or a situation one day when you don't have to bother any more at all with keyboards, when you just tell it what to do.

Go find the pictures of last years March weekend trip to London, and attach to the email to XYZ.

All you have to do then is write it or dictate it.

User-friendly bliss.

Machines are just a means to an end, not an end in themselves.
I think one of the things to consider is that Macs basically come in one flavour and are a proprietary product controlled by Steve jobs et al. On the other hand, IBM gave us the free blueprint for the PC and although there is commonality in hardware and software, it's not all the same in design, quality or build. Add to that the world-wide dislike of Bill Gates (why do people dislike success?) and you can see how the PC suffers.

As BSD rightly says, computers are just a tool. With home computers we're still at the stage of the automobile in the early 20th C - you need an expert mechanic on hand, need to grease it & change the oil frequently, and God help you if you don't understand what goes on under the hood!

Give it another 20 years and perhaps the Mac "ideal" will extend to just switching on and leaving the rest to the "automatics" like today's cars. You'll still need to understand support & resistance though.
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Old Feb 27, 2008, 12:29pm   #32
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSD View Post
Well, all I know:

1) To me a computer is a means to an end.

2) As a user I shouldn't have to learn how to program nor be burdened by unbelievable and unbelievably unnecessary complexity, by a necessity to do endless fiddling around with step after step after step as with a PC to for example do nothing more complicated than delete a program, when an Apple allows you to do the same thing in one step (!), as a user I should have a tool that is self-explanatory and intuitive to use.

3) The ideal will be reached once you are totally hassle free, no more folders, ie like Flickr, you just tell the program what to look for, or a situation one day when you don't have to bother any more at all with keyboards, when you just tell it what to do.

4) Machines are just a means to an end, not an end in themselves.

5) I want it to be a simple, intuitively understandable and straightforward affair that you can easily achieve without a manual.
Ok, assuming this to be true for many Mac fans...

1) My PC is a means to an end.

2) I don't program unless I choose to. I mostly choose not to. As for deleting programs, it isn't difficult to remove a program, but not so easy that you do it accidentally. You'll just remove the shortcut, which is a relief. I say this is good. I don't want to keep going back to my parents to fix their Mac because they accidentally removed an entire program, not just a shortcut.

3) Well, if the computer can suitably file everything in folders/directories, great. You could just put ALL your files on the desktop, then at least you'll know where it all is.

4) Yes.

5) I don't know if I've ever read a manual except to program. PCs are very obvious in their usage and when you get a new program, if it's designed correctly, then you shouldn't accidentally break something. It's those independent software houses I worry about - they make software thinking the idea is good and a slight change in protocol (bear in mind MS invest hundreds of thousands in getting user opinion on how they feel a program is to use) can make it more difficult to use.

In the real world, the only thing that currently annoys me about my PC is its inability to play games at full resolution. The simple fix is to buy a decent graphics card.

I can make music, publish professional material (books and magazines), email, surf the web, play games, trade, chat to friends on this PC. I fail to see why I need to spend another £500 to get an equivalent Mac. It is not that I'm a PC fan. I am a value fan (this doesn't mean cheap; it means getting the most for your money).

Oh and back to my previous post about build quality, tbh, I haven't had a problem with build quality, esp given that it was built by someone in a factory in NW London from component parts.
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Old Feb 27, 2008, 2:20pm   #33
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Originally Posted by nine View Post
Don't you think that it fits into the criteria for:
"don't go spouting things that aren't true"
From an IT professional (i.e. me), no, I don't think that fits the criteria.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nine

and would risk the spouter self classifying as a:
"mac fanboi"?

Come on here?
Actually, if you read it correctly, it says I am NOT a mac fanboi. I simply like anything that does something well, and Macs fall into that criteria (as do some PCs). Besides, it's not like I was even replying to you, is it?

End of conversation.
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Old Feb 27, 2008, 3:47pm   #34
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Personally though, I'm not talking about build quality but the operating system. Anyone who says that the Windows operating system is 'far superior' to OS X would be on very shaky ground and know nothing of the limitations of the Windows 'registry' in my opinion.

Also, regarding the unrivalled success of Windows - check out today's news to see how they protect their market position...!

Cheers, G
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Old Feb 27, 2008, 3:49pm   #35
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I mean this of course... BBC NEWS | Business | EU fines Microsoft record $1.4bn
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Old Feb 27, 2008, 4:13pm   #36
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It's probably also fairly safe to say that most Mac users will be familiar with Windows but that most Windows users will not be familiar with Macs, so how can they judge which is best? Sorry, I'll shut up now!
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Old Feb 27, 2008, 9:57pm   #37
 
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gododdin,

I am familiar with Macs. My dislike is based on four things: they are proprietary, thus expensive, they hide complexity at the expense of limiting choice, and not liking the emulation software much compared with native windows xp I consider the software choices limited.

rossored,

If you reread my post and think about the real likelihood of the claim "that mac build quality is "far superior" to every PC with the (possible) exception of AlienWare" you might also realise why I pointed out the possibility that such a claim would be self-classifying. I suggested this with both humour and some edge. But I think, that given the truth in the quote below, you are correct and the conversation is over.

A strong bias towards MACs is usually based on a preference for the seamlessness of a proprietary solution but does seem to fit into this category (borrowed from an earlier post):

"The things people believe in are usually just what they instinctively feel is right; the justifications and arguments are the least important part of the belief. That's why you can win the argument, prove them wrong, and still they believe what they did in the first place. You've attacked the wrong thing.
So what do you do? Agree to disagree. Or fight. - C. Zakalwe."

Last edited by nine; Feb 27, 2008 at 10:09pm.
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Old Feb 28, 2008, 12:20am   #38
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Originally Posted by nine View Post
"The things people believe in are usually just what they instinctively feel is right; the justifications and arguments are the least important part of the belief. That's why you can win the argument, prove them wrong, and still they believe what they did in the first place. You've attacked the wrong thing.
So what do you do? Agree to disagree. Or fight. - C. Zakalwe."
QED!
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Old Feb 28, 2008, 12:47am   #39
 
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Originally Posted by rossored View Post
Sorry, I'm not a mac fanboi, but this is simply not true.

Most likely, if you've had a bad experience with Apple it's just bad luck. They get Monday morning/Friday afternoon machines, just like every other vendor. Build quality on all modern Apple hardware is second to none; far superior to anything in the PC mould, with the possible (equal) exception of something like AlienWare - again, a premium-priced product.

DVD drives regularly pack up on all kinds of machines. Apple are not unique. I regularly replace them.

As for not meant to last ... well, I'm writing this on a wonderfully fast PowerBook G4, 3 years old. Upstairs, I have an old clunker iMac G3; far from fast, but it still runs fine. However, I have done maintenance work on Apples (and ThinkPads, amongst other things) because occasionally there are problems here and there. But please don't go spouting things that aren't true, simply because you've had a slightly bad experience with a product.
How is what I posted not true? I simply related my experience. Maybe I did get a lemon, but from what I've read about the new generation Intel based Macbook Pros, it seems that I am not alone. Warping is a very very common problem.

Please don't compare the Desktop products or the old PPC line with the new gen Macbooks. Those products are in a class of their own. As far as build quality goes, I'd prefer a ThinkPad, Samsung, or Panasonic any day of the week.

Last edited by ATLien; Feb 28, 2008 at 5:04am.
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Old Feb 28, 2008, 11:51am   #40
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Originally Posted by 0007 View Post
With home computers we're still at the stage of the automobile in the early 20th C - you need an expert mechanic on hand, need to grease it & change the oil frequently, and God help you if you don't understand what goes on under the hood!

Give it another 20 years and perhaps the Mac "ideal" will extend to just switching on and leaving the rest to the "automatics" like today's cars. You'll still need to understand support & resistance though.
I totally agree.

Ninja, you made good points too.

But it's still, at the end of the day, about simplicity though isn't it.

Ie the well thought out, logical procedure is the one that needs the fewest steps, is the one that reduces to the max unncesssary steps.

If I want to switch on my radio I do not want to have to go through ten menu levels just to get to where my grandparents got with one single step 70 years ago.

As far as I'm aware a Mac is always simpler than a PC, with orders that get you where you want to go needing far fewer steps than on a PC.

And you really cannot delete anything on a Mac without knowing exactly what you're doing...

The way you delete something is by clicking on it, and dragging it to what very clearly looks like a trash bin, and dumping it inside.

The same like at home: pick up your trash, walk over to the trash bin, and throw it in.

Simple, elegant, and effective.

If people need to safeguard their trash bins at home by making it necessary to unlock several doors and go through several procedures before they can reach their trash cans, just to make sure that they don't inadvertently throw away the family jewels, then that is more a function of old age creeping on, than anything remotely sensible.

No disrespect to your parents at all, old age coming creeping up is just a question of time for all of us after all.

A final advantage of MAC's: Size.

No more huge, clunky boxes standing around.
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