A Moderator's View

With mods thin on the ground lately, it's been difficult to be about at the right time to nip things in the bud and stop some threads lurching out of control. I was engaged last night in the somewhat thankless task of trying to pick up the pieces on one such thread and I was struck by two comments:

.....However, the bilge that passes for posts, that goes through unmolested, has pretty much destroyed the credibility of this site. I could not in all honesty recommend this board to anyone for fear of litigatable liability..... by ducati998

.......However, I think it is time for the managers of this site to stop and think what happened to it. This is pretty serious stuff, I think. There is a lot of competetion from some very well run websites out there and it is now becoming ridiculous some of the threads on this post must be driving people away in droves. At the very list, T2W must appear as some kind of lunatic asylum. Remember this is a trading site and it is incumbant upon the moderators to make sure it remains and is perceived as such. Maybe it is time to change the rules and be a bit more ruthless..... by fxscalper2

I am starting this thread, not to discuss the relative merits or otherwise of the thread on which these comments appeared, but to give members the chance to discuss the wider issues involved.

I have my own views, of course, but let others start

cheers

jon

Its a thin line Jon and one your unfortunate to have to cover by yourself.

There are threads there covering all the aspects and if people dislike the psychology threads, they can steer clear and adjoin and post on threads relevant to their own trading.

Unfortunately, like traffic passing an accident, everyone seems to interested in watching the mess instead of getting to their own destination.

Hi

I promise i'm not working for them, but the Forexfactory model is ideal. Stricter rules/methodology when you sign up. People at FF go there to be constructive and to learn and improve - these are my initial impressions, and threads seem to generally remain more focused, with fewer urine extractors.
Perhaps this is helped by the streamlined nature of FF, in that people are only trading forex.
But if T2W is remodelling itself, so that the forex forum becomes the main forum, it has a lot to do to catch up with FF. The trading strategies forum at FF is really strong.

I see T2W as a good place to come to cover the basics of trading - learn about and discuss broker issues etc.
FF is a good place to go to to progress to adopting winning strategies, where ideas are discussed, and members aims are to learn, improve and progress.

I've just seen a good member signature on FF, something like - "Great minds discuss ideas, mediocre minds discuss events, small minds discuss people."

I'm not slagging T2W off in anyway. My feedback is meant to be constructive. I've learnt a lot of what i know about trading here and think it is a good trading community, with some very helpful members.

The main areas for improvement as i see it are stricter rules to cut the BS, more focus on respecting other peoples trading strategy and ideas through constructive feedback, less antagonism, some of the paranoid members need to take a chill pill, and remember that wasting their time writing posts that serve no other purpose than to satisfy their egos in an attempt to discredit others in an anonymous forum, are exactly that - a waste of time.

One thing that annoys me on T2W is people posting threads in the wrong forum/room. Generally things that belong to the foyer, being posted in general trading chat etc., wading through the garbage etc........

Unfortunately, the anonymity of tinternet allows people to behave like a 14 years old who thinks he has a 14" male organ. However posting styles/techniques identify previously banned posters even if they do use differnent IP addresses and somehow gain access to "stale" members passwords.

There is only one (returning multiple times) poster causing the problem. End of.

However, there is no requirement for any site moderator to behave consistantly.

I mod/admin a couple of sites and take absolutely no brown stuff at all. As I essentially pay for them I figure what I say goes. Troublemakers get one warning and that's it. New members very quickly understand that that is how the site is run and, imo, appreciate it. Banned member stay banned.

I have also asked what makes T2W appear to attract unruly elements, along with charlton, and chump, and a few others. (sorry to pick names, and will edit if asked)

When compared to the likes of StrategybuilderFX and Forex Factory, they seem to suffer less.

Is it because these two sites, (merely as examples), are focussed on FX for Forex Factory, and MT-4 specific for SBFX, and as a consequence the threads/posts have a focus that moderators can enforce anything off-topic?

Is T2W unique in having "Philosophy" and "Psychology" forums (fora?), which opens the floodgates to anything that is only peripherally trading related?

We have a Joke thread, which is absolutely for bun-fights and fun.
We also have a Foyer thread, which allows for non-trading issues, (eg, NLP, eyesight exercises, any other business)

The Foyer thread does not show on the front page, and ahyone posting knows that.

Should threads have a genuine "quantifiable" trading element in order to be allowed to be started, in that a set of rules must be offered up as a starting point for discussion.
(eg, does Random Entry work?, FX threads, Dow thread, Nasdaq trading ala grey1, etc )

Should threads be allowed to be started with the principle "we are going to post, but not define our edge, as you are not worthy" ? If so, whats the point of that?

( you could argue that the weekly FX thread is like that, but is more a info-exchange and support group )

I reckon the philosophy and psychology fourms should be banished to the Foyer, and NOT show up on the front page - if you want it, you have to go looking for it.

Stronger rules defined for thread-starting, such as a system be offered for further discussion.
Anything along the lines of "bell-ringing hunchbacks" need not apply.

EDIT: wasp said it better with fewer words.

I agree with Wasp - yours is a thankless task indeed.

I've been reading (and occasionally posting to) the threads I think you're referring to, and to be honest see them as a bit of light entertainment. The early days of the options thread had me thinking about some stuff I hadn't considered before, but then I don't trade options so it was largely academic. Since then the threads have been worthless, but nice to look in on during a trading day, presumably in the same way that my wife likes to watch people shouting at each other on Eastenders to 'relax'.

The danger would be if the arguments and rivalries spread over to more useful threads, but as long as they're contained in one ot two places, then I can't see the harm in them. Any newbie would run a mile rather than follow advice shown in any of them I'm sure.

A wider issue (I don't follow any other trading forums), is that it gets a bit dull seeing yet another newbie asking the same question about how to get started time and again - I've rather lost patience at offering the same advice over and again. And then with a few exceptions more experienced traders presumably find there's not much to be gained here and lose interest - I've a lot of respect for those who really know their onions and continue to post on here when they get little out of it in return. Maybe that's just the way of forums...

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works but the one reason I stayed at T2W instead of going to FF or Strategy builder FX is the exact reason they get such solid support.

T2W taught me to not look for the holy grail system and even though I have one (doh!) T2W taught me to look and understand the markets and read them, understand them, read between the lines and the people moving them. I don't want a system, I want to learn the markets, and T2W is the only one that addressed that, rather than 'systems'.

The question is, why has the 'dow 2007' and 'FTSE 2007' died a death (amongst others)? Where did everyone go? These threads didn't have problems or arguments as far as I remember but so many great posters have vanished. IS that really all down to 'those' threads?

Other problems -

Thread killing posts - not only off topic posts, but posts that don't make sense and seem to have been made to delibwerately confuse and destabilise a thread.
Bold opinions offered, without any real explanations. EG. I don't think that system will work. (end of post. No because..........)

T2W has a heck of a lot of forums and sub-forums. The lounger has about 6 sub-forums. This could be amalgamated into one. Beacause, when you have so many non-trading related rooms etc.perhaps this gives out the message that T2W is not just about trading. At FF, forums are much more focused in their titlles - hence the content is much more focused IMO.

moderating is thankless task

advfn has been distroyed by the lunatics, I just do not go there any more

all these lunatics have to be treated like kids
you have to be tough with them

If they are posting crap ,
then they are out


there is no point in having 60,000 members

if only 5000 are posting good stuff

25000 are posting now and again

and 30,000 are posting crap
just get rid of them

Why not let the members help by via democratic termination of threads.

All threads perhaps should have a vote to close, set a limit of say 30 votes and when the members have had enough they vote when it hits the required amount the thread is closed.

How fine a trgigger on it you use i dont know.

You might actually get people to take a greater interest in generating improved content if they know they can help to keep their communities "Streets" relatively tidy as a group rather than relying on a few mods to shoulder full burden.

It will work.

yes FF is a focused and a fairly serious place, and good for intermedates looking to develop/take the next step maybe.
It can be heavy going trawling though strategy threads in the search of a "better performing system", only to conclude that it works OK, is not much better or worse than what you do now, and the the OP is cherry picking their trades that they mark on their historical charts (when in fact the same criteria was met X no. bars, back and you did not highlight/pick that trade).

Overall though, I'm enjoying FF, and have picked up a few more useful things.

I think the fact the FF is soleely about forex, is of great help in keeping everything streamlined and focused.

I think the foyer is a good idea and important, as it gives people chance to let off steam. Its also good that foyer threads dont appear in main menu. But the foyer could just be one sub-forum in itself for random non-trading related threads - not that it really matter much.

A thankless task ? I for one have said what a good job the mods have done in previous months Im not sure I would say that now as there have been posts that clearly contraviene the rules and getting away with the blatant mentioning of another site is beyond me.

It is clear that when some vague threads are moved to the foyer they are no longer of use to some posters
It is also clear that some threads are started under the premis of discussion but when questions or opposing views are posted then members are told to shut up or are called or refered to as monkeys or dunces
What would I do? massive editing of those threads that are greatly off topic or that have been padded out there is no need for these threads to remain at hundreds of pages it makes it hard to search for usefull information, this is why members voted to split the forex thread in to a weekly thread

dc2000 said:

A thankless task ? I for one have said what a good job the mods have done in previous months Im not sure I would say that now as there have been posts that clearly contraviene the rules and getting away with the blatant mentioning of another site is beyond me.

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Sorry,
i didn't know this was against any rules. Is it?

People have mentioned moneytec, FF, ET etc. penty times, even posting links to threads there.
I thought T2W was quite liberal/democratic in this sense.

My motives are to give honest, open, frank and constructive feedback, as Barjon and Sharky would wish for.

it appears that the quality of discussions is not so much the problem
but more the fact that there are deep rooted issues between members that have been going on for some time.
this creates the rather hostile environment that we appear to see recently

to the Mods
its terribly unfair for yourselves to have to filter through a lot of member's 'personal issues' which IMO is the heart of the problem. not the subjects discussed
maybe a simple solution is to be fair but also strict to a topic
a comment relating to the subject is acceptable but personal attacks should not be tolerated. and lets be honest the whole problem is about personal attacks.
and lastly its ironic that the threads that some members consider 'crap' are the one most viewed in the short term.
i think it shows that controversy is the attractor not the initial subject
or the initial subject is the attractor but the 'subjective material' is what keeps the fire burning.
strange psychology

I assume someone (group of people) owns this site. Well, you should make a judgement as to what is good for the site fellas. Democracy has nothing to do with it. If I owned this place, I would ban one member for good, end of story. What would I keep him for? See what I mean? It is a bloody nonesense. Oh, 'we have to be evenhanded' and all that crap. Oh, please stop being sooooo British and ban. And tell members to behave and if they don't, ban them. Do you think these guys are good for the site?

FXSCALPER2 said:

Do you think these guys are good for the site?

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They're good for the site in that they're good for the business, which is the site. I've really learned a lot from T2W, but maybe more from the 2001-2003 threads than the 2005-2007 threads.

If you were Sharky, what would you be thinking, what would you want, and what would you do?

blackcab said:

They're good for the site in that they're good for the business, which is the site. I've really learned a lot from T2W, but maybe more from the 2001-2003 threads than the 2005-2007 threads.

If you were Sharky, what would you be thinking, what would you want, and what would you do?

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Controversial threads = traffic. Traffic = advertising revenue.

So I'd imagine they'll stay...

Blackcab - did you learn more from the 2001-2003 threads because they were more informative, or because you were lower down the curve?

Jack o'Clubs said:

did you learn more from the 2001-2003 threads because they were more informative, or because you were lower down the curve?

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I haven't done a proper study, but my impression is they were more informative, there was less T2W politics and bickering, less ego, fewer personality disorders on show, and the knowledge & expertise indicated in the average post was higher. Just my subjective view. I was lower down the curve as well of course, but I re-read the older threads still, and they seem fresher.