Talking Dirty

Talking Dirty

There – I knew you would open this thread. Something exciting, something salacious.

T2w is like a park. It was created as a pleasant place where people could meet, chat, exchange views in a pretty environment with trees, borders, plants etc. Maybe even do a little planting themselves.

But since the park was there and some like only to despoil and vandalise, from time to time along came some unpleasant hoodies hiding their identity and trying to intimidate the walkers. Some of the hoodies CLAIMED to be doubly incontinent, leaving wee and poo wherever they went. Sometimes they picked up their poo and threw it at other park users. They felt this was their right in order to have “fun” or as perfectly reasonable self-expression. Some of the time they claimed what they did was really ok because being incontinent they couldn’t help themselves. This was bordering on the understandable in the eyes of some folk who felt that excrement was really good for the park anyway.
Analysed closely they had a point – in the point of view of others.
The park keepers felt they ought to try and keep the environment safe and enjoyable and went around trying to clear up the mess and asking the hoodies to desist.
Most hoodies didn’t and were banned from the park. Being hoodies they returned in slightly different clothes with their faces obscured. When spotted sometimes they were banned if they started pooing again. Occasionally there were allegations an entirely innocent hoodie had been banned from the park.
From time to time the volunteer park keepers made mistakes and in their well intentioned efforts to keep things clean removed anything people had planted in the borders, thinking it to be litter. This generated outrage from those who felt the park should not be cultivated but would be better left to nature and also annoyance from those who did not have malign motives and felt themselves innocent of any wrong doing, merely contributing by planting something attractive or useful.
Some vociferous park users questioned the identification of excrement by the park keepers. They asked how one lot of poo could be missed in one area and removed in another. And anyway, they said, how can you KNOW that brown mass is excrement without taking it to a laboratory and analysing it in detail. What qualifies YOU, they say, without being a trained and qualified analyst, to pass judgement as to the nature of the substance. After all, just because it was deposited by a known individual with a history, looks like poo and smells like poo, that is no reason in a court of law to actually confirm its nature and identity; much less have the self-appointed right to remove it,
Soon the whole park was contaminated and ruined for others by the smelly mess and by the constant outraged arguments of a handful of users.
The park keepers apparently met up from time to time to discuss what to do next.
After all it was a public park so how could they stem the tide of hoodies.
It was decided hoodies were ok as long as they didn’t poo. This was fair enough.
The only problem was those who did mess.
Get strict and the innocent might get caught up, don’t be strict and the innocent will get caught up……..
So what did the park keepers and the owner do?
Let’s ask the users. Brilliant.
Only trouble was many of the people who answered were hoodies. A few decent folk spoke up, only to be shouted down by the usual suspects. 99% didn’t express a view.
Maybe they didn’t care…….or maybe they didn’t want excrement thrown at them..........or maybe they just went to a better park.
Many felt the park keepers were completely wrong to ask for the views of the users since the former kept being inconsistent in their plant/litter/excrement removal activities. Not to mention that asking for users' views was some sort of admission of job failure in itself.
So what happened in the end?
They knew putting up big signs explaining park rules wouldn't work since human behaviour is often border line and those rules would be tested and bent, if not ignored.
Toleration and mutual respect were out of the question since it was a public area and some people don't have those words in their lexicon, much less understand their responsibilities and obligations to others.
Did the park go to seed and end up full of different types of human detritus?
Was Robocop called in? Was the solution even worse than the problem?
Well there wasn’t an end. Societies either develop mechanisms for self regulation or they implode.
But that’s survival of the fittest.
A dirty story.
And an on-going one.
Richard

pontificating on the perplexing problem of provocative poo throwing perpetrators.

I like this post. What next with the park?

Goodness me, don't the little horrors in hoodies pour weed killer all over the otherwise fertile and carefully cultivated ground of those who seek to pick and consume the tender young shoots.

Never mind, microanalysis of the problem might effect a cure and get the $$$$$$$$ flowing again.

Oh deary deary me ..watch out for any big bad words. If they come into contact with a pea brain it automatically explodes.

Mark,
If you are not going to be here anymore, please email me
[email protected]
I wouldn't want to lose touch with people of your quality.
Take care,
Richard

Mark,
I have thought of adding a little private BB to my own site if t2w doesn't rapidly take control of the situation - just a small number of good, decent people helping one another and enjoying good company.
Richard

Mr. Charts said:

Mark,
I have thought of adding a little private BB to my own site if t2w doesn't rapidly take control of the situation - just a small number of good, decent people helping one another and enjoying good company.
Richard

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Well, I commented a while back about realtraders discussion group going back a few years here, but you had to submit a request to join, that process will help act as a filter for those who just want to mess about and be continually rude.

Can it be set up whereby you apply to join but there is opportunity to post several threads etc... via t2w, like private boards but there are discussions, numerous threads, I mean its simple manners at the end of the day.

This topic of poo slinging has the subject of at least 3 threads in the last 2 months or so, and is very valid. One of these threads seems to be a poo pit where people sling away, but where the real topic at hand was, "when is it going to end?" I started reading that thread but got bored, and maybe even a little depressed. Reminded me a bit of a run down graffiti splattered 1960's council estate.

There are threads where certain "hoodies" seem to lurk where the topic of discussion is interesting and valid. I sometimes want to post something I feel is of value; but then I review in my mind who has posted there, and who may well lurking in the bushes right now and think,

"Stuff it. I can't be bothered with the hassle and arguments," and don't bother to post. This is a crying shame because other people posting on the thread in question have very valid points to make and are decent individuals. Some people may call me a coward or a wuss. So what. That's their view and they're entitled to it. However, as anywhere in society, a degree of self preservation and protection has to be considered important. Otherwise you end up getting hurt if you're not careful.

For me T2W has given me much help in the leads it has provided for my own development, and the odd dead end distraction. I am very grateful to those that have gone out of their way to answer questions I have asked, and to those, who unknowlingly have helped me on my way. The distractions are lessons learned!

By the same token, however, I am disgusted by the type of PM's that people have received, as mentioned above. This, for me, is not what a site is about and should be jumped on and stamped out immediately.

Jimmy, don't let the minority spoil it for you. You seem quite frail to me when you post things like the above. Have you lived a sheltered life? 40k+ members and you think it's going to be a smooth ride, forget it mate. I don't know what type of trader or person you are, and at this very moment i don't want to know, but you just don't seem realistic to me. This site holds a lot of information, if you just want your own little world of just a handful of people all back patting and agreeing with each other then that's up to you to create that, because in the real world it's not going to happen. Jimmy, you may be a great trader and i hope you don't stop using T2W. How can you get so upset over something so trivial in life as talk on a chat forum? As for getting hurt, that made me laugh. You are obviously new to chat forums, you'll get used to them, you must. Don't roll over and die, mate.

It is with sadness and regret that I must announce my resignation as a site moderator.

To be frank, I feel I am no longer up to the job. A number of recent posts on the boards would seem to back that feeling up, although it is not purely due to them & recent events that I have taken this decision - it has, if I'm honest, been brewing for some time. I am painfully aware that my moderating decisions increasingly lack consistency and objectivity and I am not sure I possess the correct character or sufficient intellect to do this job properly any more, if indeed ever. Increasingly I find myself becoming emotionally involved when what is required is the sort of cool, analytical and rational thought that often seems beyond my capability. Perhaps trading saps most of my resources of this nature. On a purely selfish level, I am also completely fed up of the endless politics and circular arguments that plague the site and gain scant satisfaction from the task of trying (& often failing) to deal with them fairly.

In light of this I think it is in the best interests of the site if I hand the post over to a fresh face. Ironically, or not, one of the reasons I took up trading as a career was specifically to avoid this sort of situation, and as my trading has also recently started to be affected, I feel it is time I made a tactical, albeit cowardly withdrawal from the seat of judgement.

I would also like to publically and unconditionally apologise to anyone who feels let down by any of my moderating decisions, past or present, or indeed this resignation.

Regretfully,

Frugi


2006 edit: After a chance to cool down and collect my thoughts I thought I'd have another go at it. Forgive the melodrama above.

Frugi. I personally don't know what moderating involves, although, i can imagine. Please don't stop using this site. Personally......i think you seem sound, matey, and i mean it. I personally will miss your comment, if you go completely. Yours, Rude.

Sorry to hear that Frugi, thanks for all your input & work on the site up till now

Frugi,
What I will say publicly is whilst I have personally disagreed with some of your decisions when you have edited or deleted some of my comments, I have always had the highest respect for you.
Your above post is far, far too self-critical and is, frankly, unwarranted in that regard.
I am really sorry you have made this decision, but I do understand it.
My attitude is that you never, never, ever let the baddies beat you or even think for a moment they have.
I have experienced campaigns against me, innuendoes, snide remarks, nasty PMs, vicious emails etc just as a few other people have too, (as exemplified by mr.marcus's examples), and all sorts of other trash and silliness.
I'll still be here going strong whatever they do or say and will out stay them all - unless I'm banned by the mods. Whether I will post as much or as helpfully (imho) is completely another matter and depends on how well and firmly this site is moderated in the coming days.
Whereas I am bloody minded and resolute because that is my nature and the experiences that have forged me, there is no reason for you to continue a thankless task with no sight of a promised land.
Your departure as a mod is a loss to this site and another wound in its body.
The "hoodies" have won a skirmish by driving you away, but will never prevail.
I apologise to you openly and publicly if anything I have said to you by way of complaint has been a contributory factor in your decision.
With respect to you, Fran,
Richard

Arbitrageur said:

Sorry to hear that Frugi, thanks for all your input & work on the site up till now

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Frugi,

FWIW, I wholeheartedly endorse Arbitrageur's comments. I think you've done an excellent job and T2W will be a poorer place without your input. Clearly, the task of moderator on a global site with 40,000+ members isn't an easy one. Thank you for your efforts and, indeed, to your colleagues charged with an equally difficult task. Personally, I hope that you reconsider your position as I'm reasonably sure that Mr. Charts was not trying to solicit your resignation from the role of moderator with his opening post. I am equally sure that he, like most of us here, appreciate and are thankful for your efforts. If I thought that someone else could do a better job than you, I'd PM them and urge them to offer themselves up for the job. Frugi, I can'tdo that. That is to say that I can't think of anyone!

So, if it's just a little bit of moral support that you need to continue your good work, count me in! If your involvement with T2W has a negative impact on your trading, then your resignation is regrettable but completely understandable. However, if you are resigning because you feel you are not up to the job then you are very much mistaken - IMO. If the latter is the case, I urge you to reconsider your position, you've done an excellent job under very difficult circumstances.
Best wishes,
Tim.

RUDEBOY said:

... if you just want your own little world of just a handful of people all back patting and agreeing with each other then that's up to you to create that, because in the real world it's not going to happen.

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There is a big difference between constructive discussion and debate, on the one hand, and comments which are constructed in such a way as to cause offense, on the other. The former is healthy, the latter destructive, to be jumped on. Furthermore, malicious and threatening PM's/ e-mails are not acceptable - end of story.

Frugi,

Sorry to hear of your decision. I have to say, I don't blame you. It's not a job I'd choose to do, personally. But thank you for all the work you've done.

Best regards. J

Frugi,

It is most regrettable that you have come to this decision, but you know best. Your contributions as a Moderator will be missed by the vast majority of members and the Site will probably be the worst for it.

Unfortunately, you have been over critical of what you have viewed as personal shortcomings in executing the tasks and duties of a Moderator. I for one have always felt that you were one of the better ones.

As for those that may feel that they have taken another scalp, they are only a minority and as with all things, the majority always win in the end.

I am flattered and overwhelmed by the deluge of extremely kind comments following my resignation post. Though I'm afraid my decision stands (even in light of such a favourable, touching response) I have absolutely no intention of leaving the site and hope to continue penning trading-related rambles regularly.

I'd like to add that I'm sorry if my post came across in any way as a deliberately manipulative attempt to "martyr" myself or seek restoration of my self-confidence: though of course I am extremely grateful for the moral support offered above, I'm afraid this is not a decision which can be swayed by it, well-meaning and noble as you all are. My sentiment is definitely one of ça suffit.

Mr. Charts said:

... if anything I have said to you by way of complaint has been a contributory factor in your decision.

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Not in the slightest Richard. It is slightly unfortunate that I posted in this particular thread as a causal connection might be implied between your first post and mine where none exists. Once again I thank you heartily for your generous comments.

Although I may be making heavy self-indulgent weather of the role's demands, perhaps even comparing the job of moderator to slicing off one's bottom and sitting in vinegar, I would like to say that the experience has taught me a great deal about myself and also, I hope, improved the acuteness of my empathetic skills, which in turn has helped my trading. A silver lining cliche would be apt, if it wasn't so selfish.

Finally, although I have posted this privately as well, I would like to apologise here to the other mods and Sharky for increasing their workload at a particularly difficult and inconvenient time in the site's development.

The Objectives.

Trade2Win (T2W) prides itself on being the leading community web site for active traders. Our aim is simple, we want to unite and support active traders across the globe. To this end we provide a range of facilities to enable our members to communciate with one another, share their knowledge and express their views. Furthermore we seek to provide educational and thought provoking content to help better educate our members in their trading lives.



isn't it simple...

A good decision Frugi, stick to it -
I'm not commenting on your moderating here, but on your eminently sensible decision to take your life back.
As for this thread - the original story is a rather accurate reflection of my own view of how it's all going currently. I suspect the sheer indifference of the vast majority will help it all keep running, but whether there'll be any decent content in future is going to depend on the type of user who remains, which worries me. Abusive emails etc should be grounds for a 'no second chances' ban... promises be damned.
Dave

Frugi, I am sorry to hear that you feel you have to step down.

May I thank you for all your extremely hard work as moderator, much appreciated.