Day trading is definitely more profitable and safer than Swing / Position trading

This is a discussion on Day trading is definitely more profitable and safer than Swing / Position trading within the Swing & Position Trading forums, part of the Methods category; IMO, it's easier to get good at day trading, and make consistent profits. However, such strategies are often quite hard ...

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Old Feb 22, 2008, 9:10pm   #31
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IMO, it's easier to get good at day trading, and make consistent profits.

However, such strategies are often quite hard to scale. 10-20k a day isn't unrealistic for a good day trader with luck on his side. But there aren't many who can push that to 100-200k a day.
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Old Feb 23, 2008, 6:53am   #32
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Last night gave an example as to what can happen in overnight trading. As long as you are prepared for these sort of things--- OK! But a nasty surprise for a lot of short traders on Footsie and one of the reasons that I prefer day trading.

I have not checked as to why that happened, but it did. Curiously, it was not a flash spike as they, often, are but took an hour to develope.

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Thanks! The following members like this post: black bear
Old Feb 23, 2008, 8:08am   #33
 
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Hahaha..hi ya splitlink, I take it you use finspreads judging by your graph provider, what are these spikes that people keep going on about...It's becoming a joke...its the same thing all the time and has been for years...oh..the market just spiked but only on my platform...could you find the time to post just one example on graph of a spike that so often occurs so I and others could look.

Thanks.

On the footsie it wouldn't have been a nasty surprise if you were long....




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Originally Posted by Splitlink View Post
Last night gave an example as to what can happen in overnight trading. As long as you are prepared for these sort of things--- OK! But a nasty surprise for a lot of short traders on Footsie and one of the reasons that I prefer day trading.

I have not checked as to why that happened, but it did. Curiously, it was not a flash spike as they, often, are but took an hour to develope.

Split
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Old Feb 23, 2008, 8:30am   #34
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Hahaha..hi ya splitlink, I take it you use finspreads judging by your graph provider, what are these spikes that people keep going on about...It's becoming a joke...its the same thing all the time and has been for years...oh..the market just spiked but only on my platform...could you find the time to post just one example on graph of a spike that so often occurs so I and others could look.

Thanks.

On the footsie it wouldn't have been a nasty surprise if you were long....
No, I don't go looking for spikes to prove my point which is, it doesn't matter what it is, or what caused it. It happened. I have traded overnight and follow Barjon's Swing Trading thread but have come to the opinion that I prefer to be out of the market before the close unless I,already, have made a good profit on my day trade and am willing to take a chance.

But chance, it is, IMO.

Looking at that chart. It isn't finished yet, it's only Saturday morning!

Who's going to forecast how that will open on Monday? How is he going to arrive at his conclusion, by calculated TA analysis or pure guesswork? How is the happy long trader going to feel if it goes the other way before he can get out?

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Old Feb 23, 2008, 8:41am   #35
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I think it may have been caused by news in the US and all SB companies give a quote for FTSE out of hours based on what other indices are doing.


Paul
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Old Feb 23, 2008, 8:59am   #36
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I think it may have been caused by news in the US and all SB companies give a quote for FTSE out of hours based on what other indices are doing.


Paul
News does terrible things to overnight traders, Paul!

Some time ago, I had an overnight trade on the Daily Mail Trust---DMGT. It was decided overnight that the company was not going to sell its free press arm. The shares opened with a crash the next morning!

I would not be surprised to see Footsie open with a stop seeking crash on Monday, only to pop back up again within a short space of time. Neither would I be surprised to see it not happen.

I prefer to be watching, then, rather than sweating through my Sunday church sermon.

I have come to the conclusion that God is not a capitalist, as so many Americans believe.

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Old Feb 23, 2008, 9:10am   #37
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Split,

What time period is used here - 5 minute, 15 minute?

Grant.
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Old Feb 23, 2008, 9:42am   #38
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitlink View Post
Last night gave an example as to what can happen in overnight trading. As long as you are prepared for these sort of things--- OK! But a nasty surprise for a lot of short traders on Footsie and one of the reasons that I prefer day trading.

I have not checked as to why that happened, but it did. Curiously, it was not a flash spike as they, often, are but took an hour to develope.

Split

If it gets a bit higher on Monday
I will be able to short it again
made a lot of points over the last few week doing this
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Old Feb 23, 2008, 9:48am   #39
 
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Splitlink,

Could you explain to me what the ftse 100 has in correlation to the ftse 100 futures and do these two effect one another...?

Do you have the ftse 100 closing price and ftse 100 futures closing price?

Thanks.
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Old Feb 23, 2008, 11:32am   #40
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Splitlink,

Could you explain to me what the ftse 100 has in correlation to the ftse 100 futures and do these two effect one another...?

Do you have the ftse 100 closing price and ftse 100 futures closing price?

Thanks.
FTSE futures price is the cash price plus cost of carry (expected dividends and interest cost of a hedge). It's theoretically arbitrage free. You won't be able to arb between the cash and futures bets as there's an overnight carry cost.

Actually, I lie. Once in a blue moon, they'll type the cost of carry number in their model a bit wrong, and then there'll be an arb.

Anyway, regarding the big overnight move, as Trader333 says it's down to moves in other products. I had a look at some sites last night, and if I recall correctly the spread is 10 points. If someone paid me sufficiently, I'd be more than willing to quote a 10 point spread in ftse all night. All you need is to know the correlation of the ftse against the ES. To know the approximate range of movement. And to then use an autospreader to quote the price.

Good luck!
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Old Feb 23, 2008, 11:39am   #41
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Hi Grant & Lee Shepherd,

It's a 5' chart.

Here's a screen shot of Rolling and March.

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Old Feb 23, 2008, 11:51am   #42
 
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News does terrible things to overnight traders, Paul!

Some time ago, I had an overnight trade on the Daily Mail Trust---DMGT. It was decided overnight that the company was not going to sell its free press arm. The shares opened with a crash the next morning!

I would not be surprised to see Footsie open with a stop seeking crash on Monday, only to pop back up again within a short space of time. Neither would I be surprised to see it not happen.

I prefer to be watching, then, rather than sweating through my Sunday church sermon.

I have come to the conclusion that God is not a capitalist, as so many Americans believe.

Split
Having a position overnight and having a position over night (weekend inc) that you cant escape from until the opening bell are two very different things! . Have noticed that dow can really swing about after hours, part of the reason why i prefer fx, in general the asian session tends to follow suit. Still in the same boat over the weekend tho, agree its best not to do it unless you have a decent profit cushion.
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Old Feb 23, 2008, 12:12pm   #43
 
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This is very true as when the futures take over from the underlying market,

All figure's and scenario's are examples only:

Say ftse 100 has closed(open outcry)at 6000, futures will now take over and track the potential open price for the next session, if Asian markets and DIJA start to decline then ftse 100 futures (quoted on LIFFE) will gladly follow suit hence the price quoted on finspreads that you refer to has 'spiked' or 'dipped'. The ftse futures are now trading at 5600 so this will be (as it gets closer to next trading session-open outcry) the open price or near as dam it. Any difference in prices will be soaked up on 'risk free' trades(arbitrage).

Of course theres always risk if you cannot close any position on any trade at any time.
At any part of day whether it be open outcry, electronic or futures trading or even to that matter closed at the weekend...planes flying into buildings will have a negative effect (as experienced 9/11), thus driving down prices immediately or at next session or on futures. Either way the event or news will have an effect on the underlying market value. Due to high volume trading on events it's very likely that you'll experience lag on your platform or have problems getting through to your broker or/and trying to find a buyer/seller for your contract/s.

This is another issue with scalpers that have issue's with trying to dump stock when no one will take it..then lose more money than expected..although cost's extra(as insurance) one can protect themselves by guaranteed stops(if broker permits).

Splitlink, thanks for posting charts. Explain what the issue is so I understand without doubt what your saying.


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Having a position overnight and having a position over night (weekend inc) that you cant escape from until the opening bell are two very different things! . Have noticed that dow can really swing about after hours, part of the reason why i prefer fx, in general the asian session tends to follow suit. Still in the same boat over the weekend tho, agree its best not to do it unless you have a decent profit cushion.
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Old Feb 23, 2008, 12:31pm   #44
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As far as I am concerned, there is no issue. I posted an example showing the Ft climbing 80 points in less than 30 minutes. We look at it and form our own opinions on daytrading versus holding overnight, which is what this thread is about, although I had already formed mine long before.

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Old Feb 23, 2008, 12:43pm   #45
 
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What is your opinion regarding the 80pts climb? and if you can still trade on your platform would that have not given you a great opportunity to get a good long, although the underlying market was closed it didn't stop you trading on your platform and taking advantage on a short time scale(daytrading).?

My opinion is the market duely reacted to the dow jones.

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As far as I am concerned, there is no issue. I posted an example showing the Ft climbing 80 points in less than 30 minutes. We look at it and form our own opinions on daytrading versus holding overnight, which is what this thread is about, although I had already formed mine long before.

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