Can't get the order types right

Hi all, this is just a rookie with a dumb question right.

Two days ago, I wanted to buy Akzo Nobel, exactly at 42,84. I submitted the order as limit order at 42,84 the night before.

However, the order was executed next day at 9 am at market open, at 41,96. This was not what I had in mind.

So I was advised on another forum, use 'stop limit' order. This is what I did yesterday for Heijmans. Submitted order at 14,07 - 14,09. However, this order was never executed, although price was booming today, exactly right from 14,07, so I missed out profits.

Basically, I am loosing track of my mind, when all I wanna do is buy a specific stock at a specific price, no less, no more. (or maybe slightly then!).

What can you suggest me? What order type should I use? What to fill in where? Im with IB as broker, but their manual doesnt seem logic to me.

Any serious input is highly appreciated. Thanks bfore.

dude

A limit order is an "at or better" order. It provides now bounds for how much "better" the fill is, which is why you got that first fill almost a point lower. A stop limit means once the stop price is reached or exceeded the limit will be triggered. Unfortunately, if the market only just touches the stop price it may not trigger a fill of the limit order.

You may be able to use a stop order. They are typically only good for when the market is moving away from you (buy stop above current price, sell stop below), but in some cases they will work in either direction.

What were you trying to achieve - were you looking to go long on a price breakout to the upside??

So you're complaining that you got a fill at a better price?

well if he's trying to trade a breakout and it never printed there then it's right not to want the trade I guess. Especially if you'e filled on the bid and then it tanks.

Only questions worth asking at this stage are what was the intention, and is there an appropriate order type supported by this particular provider to achieve that?

TheDuder_69 said:

Hi all, this is just a rookie with a dumb question right.

Two days ago, I wanted to buy Akzo Nobel, exactly at 42,84. I submitted the order as limit order at 42,84 the night before.

However, the order was executed next day at 9 am at market open, at 41,96. This was not what I had in mind.

So I was advised on another forum, use 'stop limit' order. This is what I did yesterday for Heijmans. Submitted order at 14,07 - 14,09. However, this order was never executed, although price was booming today, exactly right from 14,07, so I missed out profits.

Basically, I am loosing track of my mind, when all I wanna do is buy a specific stock at a specific price, no less, no more. (or maybe slightly then!).

What can you suggest me? What order type should I use? What to fill in where? Im with IB as broker, but their manual doesnt seem logic to me.

Any serious input is highly appreciated. Thanks bfore.

dude

Click to expand...

I assume that you wanted the order at 42.84 to go through the night before, if price was hit, and if it was not hit during that session to be cancelled. It sounds to me as if you submitted the order as a Good till cancelled order, in which case it will continue to remain active until it is filled, which could be at any time in the future. If this was the problem then you should submitted as a Day order.

http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/trading/orders/gtc.php?ib_entity=uk

For your second order I assume that you wanted to open a new position so you wanted a plain old limit order and not a stop limit order.

http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/trading/orders/limit.php?ib_entity=uk

A stop limit order is used to close an existing position (as is a stop market order). They trigger the creation of an order when the stop price is reached. For a stop market order as soon as the stop price is reached it creates the order in the market and the chances are that it will be filled immediately (depending on the order size and liquidity), but you do not guarantee the price at which it is filled. For a stop limit order the order is sent to the market (as before) when the stop price is reached, but it is sent as a limit order which means that it will only be filled at the limit price or better. IN this case it might not be filled.

Charlton

Rhody Trader said:

A limit order is an "at or better" order. It provides now bounds for how much "better" the fill is, which is why you got that first fill almost a point lower. A stop limit means once the stop price is reached or exceeded the limit will be triggered. Unfortunately, if the market only just touches the stop price it may not trigger a fill of the limit order.

You may be able to use a stop order. They are typically only good for when the market is moving away from you (buy stop above current price, sell stop below), but in some cases they will work in either direction.

Click to expand...

So, limit price the the maximum price you are willing to trade the stock. When the current market price is below my submitted limit price, the order will be filled. Is that correct?

So when I want to enter the market at a specific price (because of expected break out) it doesn't make sense to use limit order right?

PS. The situation is that I need to submit my orders night before the next trading session, as I am not able to do this during the session itself.

GammaJammer said:

What were you trying to achieve - were you looking to go long on a price breakout to the upside??

Click to expand...

That was exactly the case

arabianights said:

So you're complaining that you got a fill at a better price?

Click to expand...

Is also right, cuz price went down after I got filled for a long order

GammaJammer said:

Only questions worth asking at this stage are what was the intention, and is there an appropriate order type supported by this particular provider to achieve that?

Click to expand...

That's exactly what I am lookin for, I mean the amount of order types one can use is dazzling, but buying a stock at a specific price sounds easy and, ironicly, seems to be impossible LOL (at least til now).

TheDuder_69 said:

So, limit price the the maximum price you are willing to trade the stock. When the current market price is below my submitted limit price, the order will be filled. Is that correct?

So when I want to enter the market at a specific price (because of expected break out) it doesn't make sense to use limit order right?

PS. The situation is that I need to submit my orders night before the next trading session, as I am not able to do this during the session itself.

Click to expand...

Ah now I see what you are trying to do.

I think you require a limit if touched order. It has a trigger price at which point it is sent to the market as a limit order at the limit price you specify or better.

http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/trading/orders/lit.php?ib_entity=uk

You would set this the night before as a good till cancelled order with a trigger price at a level that confirms the breakout and a limit price at the level at which you wish to buy.

Charlton

Charlton said:

I assume that you wanted the order at 42.84 to go through the night before, if price was hit, and if it was not hit during that session to be cancelled. It sounds to me as if you submitted the order as a Good till cancelled order, in which case it will continue to remain active until it is filled, which could be at any time in the future. If this was the problem then you should submitted as a Day order.

http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/trading/orders/gtc.php?ib_entity=uk

Click to expand...

Hmm.. I was just thinking the opposite way, the up trend could occur during the next coming day session, but also could not, so I choose GTC, so I didn't have to re-submit the next day if there was no outbreak. Apparently, I should use Day order then...

Charlton said:

For your second order I assume that you wanted to open a new position so you wanted a plain old limit order and not a stop limit order.

http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/trading/orders/limit.php?ib_entity=uk

A stop limit order is used to close an existing position (as is a stop market order). They trigger the creation of an order when the stop price is reached. For a stop market order as soon as the stop price is reached it creates the order in the market and the chances are that it will be filled immediately (depending on the order size and liquidity), but you do not guarantee the price at which it is filled. For a stop limit order the order is sent to the market (as before) when the stop price is reached, but it is sent as a limit order which means that it will only be filled at the limit price or better. IN this case it might not be filled.

Charlton

Click to expand...

Not sure what broker you're using, but interactive brokers offers a "limit if touched", order type. I haven't used it, but the description says they hold the order in their system until a specified trigger price is hit.

Edit: I opened this to reply, ate breakfast, someone else answered, and now I just look stupid for writing what's already up there. Doh.

superfuego said:

Not sure what broker you're using, but interactive brokers offers a "limit if touched", order type. I haven't used it, but the description says they hold the order in their system until a specified trigger price is hit.

Edit: I opened this to reply, ate breakfast, someone else answered, and now I just look stupid for writing what's already up there. Doh.

Click to expand...

Hahah..never mind, BTW, I greatly appreciate all respons so far, seems like a nice bunch of people here, who take the effort to help rookies like me.

Charlton said:

Ah now I see what you are trying to do.

I think you require a limit if touched order. It has a trigger price at which point it is sent to the market as a limit order at the limit price you specify or better.

http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/trading/orders/lit.php?ib_entity=uk

You would set this the night before as a good till cancelled order with a trigger price at a level that confirms the breakout and a limit price at the level at which you wish to buy.

Charlton

Click to expand...

Hi Charlton, Thanks for your explanation! I might as well try to use this type right now for submitting my orders for 2mrow.

BTW I am trying out Stocktiger.com for outbreaks, but only on a sim-account for now, to see how things work.

superfuego said:

Not sure what broker you're using, but interactive brokers offers a "limit if touched", order type. I haven't used it, but the description says they hold the order in their system until a specified trigger price is hit.

Edit: I opened this to reply, ate breakfast, someone else answered, and now I just look stupid for writing what's already up there. Doh.

Click to expand...

Not stupid at all - you've taken the trouble to help someone - and anyway great minds think alike

Charlton

TheDuder_69 said:

Hahah..never mind, BTW, I greatly appreciate all respons so far, seems like a nice bunch of people here, who take the effort to help rookies like me.

Click to expand...

I would say that most people who pop up here and ask a genuine question about their trading get people falling over themselves to help. It's the spammers and scammers that get shot down. But you are clearly just someone looking for a bit of advice. Glad that the collective wisdom of T2W has hopefully been helpful. Stick around - there's loads of helpful souls here really. Just a few idiots as well.

GJ

GammaJammer said:

Stick around - there's loads of helpful souls here really. Just a few idiots as well.

GJ

Click to expand...

This is the first message board I've been on. One thing that sticks out to me is how trollish just one or two people can be. There are a multitude of responses in my mind about those people, most of them I would expect are common, like "Don't they have something better to do?" or "Why are they so rude?".

The other though, this being my first message board, and my first real experience with trolls, is, why do they show up here, yet I never meet them in real life?

I have to assume they exist in real life, so what is it about real life that prevents their behavior?

I wonder if the answer isn't that in real life they're just afraid they'd get pummeled.

Yup - spot on with the pummelling reference. Got it in one.

Nah, I think it's far more that an obvious joke in real life sounds terribly unpleasant on the internet if one is of a sensitive disposition... neither party is actually at fault. I've met most of the "trollish" people here in real life and if anything they're ruder in reality