A Mug's Game???

J

JPWTrader

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Hello,

I am new to this.

I recently picked up a book on spread betting and was fascinated. I then went on to loose 20k of virtual money on one of the spread betting websites (I admit I did make some reckless bets). I would be interested to find out other peoples experiences of these websites.

JPW
 
They are good IMO

JPWTrader said:
Hello,

I am new to this.

I recently picked up a book on spread betting and was fascinated. I then went on to loose 20k of virtual money on one of the spread betting websites (I admit I did make some reckless bets). I would be interested to find out other peoples experiences of these websites.

JPW
Click to expand...

well I think they are good JPW

you can lose as much virtual money as you like with it costing you anything

=

All the FUN none of the pain

but no pain no gain :confused:

Have FUN :p
 
JPWTrader said:
Hello,

I am new to this.

I recently picked up a book on spread betting and was fascinated. I then went on to loose 20k of virtual money on one of the spread betting websites (I admit I did make some reckless bets). I would be interested to find out other peoples experiences of these websites.

JPW
Click to expand...


Hi there

I could not agree more, my experiences with spreadbetting were not good and fortunately my losses were small. Now I trade forex and mini futures succesfully, it's been more cost effective for me to pay the tax. people are lured to SB because it's tax free. Those who manage to do it and avoid the rip off companies I wish them well but I suspect in reality they are few and far between.

Whenever the racing industry gets out of line we have a stewards inquiry or the governing body gets involved perhaps even the legal establishment. Where's the FSA? Any excuse they can find not to get involved they will in my view use. It could be said they are somewhat blinkered.

Cheers
Nut
 
Nut said:
Hi there

I could not agree more, my experiences with spreadbetting were not good and fortunately my losses were small. Now I trade forex and mini futures succesfully, it's been more cost effective for me to pay the tax. people are lured to SB because it's tax free. Those who manage to do it and avoid the rip off companies I wish them well but I suspect in reality they are few and far between.

Whenever the racing industry gets out of line we have a stewards inquiry or the governing body gets involved perhaps even the legal establishment. Where's the FSA? Any excuse they can find not to get involved they will in my view use. It could be said they are somewhat blinkered.

Cheers
Nut
Click to expand...

Good post NUT

serious = read all you can

get a plan and play small or virtual to start with

I have just moved to real market and you are 100% correct IMO NUT but its not cheap to get started and I would not have liked to start learning with one lot size 2 yrs back

saying that =

Dont be a mug, play the sbs small and use them to your advantage while you learn and find what suits and stay of the under 15 min charts :eek:

saying that

open a real account and pay for platform etc and paper trade it till you can do it or not=

cost 1 years platform fees

dont bother with the sb firms = bunch of C...ks

Nut s correct
 
Last edited:
Nut said:
Hi there

I could not agree more, my experiences with spreadbetting were not good and fortunately my losses were small. Now I trade forex and mini futures succesfully, it's been more cost effective for me to pay the tax. people are lured to SB because it's tax free. Those who manage to do it and avoid the rip off companies I wish them well but I suspect in reality they are few and far between.

Whenever the racing industry gets out of line we have a stewards inquiry or the governing body gets involved perhaps even the legal establishment. Where's the FSA? Any excuse they can find not to get involved they will in my view use. It could be said they are somewhat blinkered.

Cheers
Nut
Click to expand...
Things will change. EU MiFID financial directives is the first step in this direction. The FSA will be pressured to take action when needed. Financial Spread Betting is moving into the public mainstream and that will make the EU financial institutions to act accordingly, in the direction of regulation.
 
JPWTrader said:
I then went on to loose 20k
Click to expand...

Reverse what you did and pocket 20 K....... ? whilst listening to Will Smiths Summertime.......


Summertime.....Summertime..Summertime..


Summer, summer, summertime
Time to sit back and unwind

Verse one: fresh prince

Here it is the groove slightly transformed
Just a bit of a break from the norm
Just a little somethin to break the monotony
Of all that hardcore dance that has gotten to be
A little bit out of control its cool to dance
But what about the groove that soothes that moves romance
Give me a soft subtle mix
And if aint broke then dont try to fix it
And think of the summers of the past
Adjust the base and let the alpine blast
Pop in my cd and let me run a rhyme
And put your car on cruise and lay back cause this is summertime

Chorus

Verse two: fresh prince

School is out and its a sort of a buzz
A back then I didnt really know what it was
But now I see what have of this
The way that people respond to summer madness
The weather is hot and girls are dressing less
And checking out the fellas to tell em whos best
Riding around in your jeep or your benzos
Or in your nissan stting on lorenzos
Back in philly we be ou in the park
A place called the plateau is where everybody goes
Guys out hunting and girls doing likewise
Honking at the honey in front of you with the light eyes
She turn around to see what you beeping at
Its like the summers a natural afradesiac
And with a pen and pad I compose this rhyme
To hit you and get you equipped for the summer time

Chorus

Verse three: fresh prince

Its late in the day and I aint been on the court yet
Hustle to the mall to get me a short set
Yeah I got on sneaks but I need a new pair
Cause basketball courts in the summer got girls there
The temperatures about 88
Hop in the water plug just for old times sake
Break to ya crib change your clothes once more
Cause youre invited to a barbeque thats starting at 4
Sitting with your friends cause yall remincise
About the days growing up and the first person you kiss
And as I think back makes me wonder how
The smell from a grill could spark up nostalgia
All the kids playing out front
Little boys messin round with the girls playing double-dutch
While the djs spinning a tune as the old folks dance at your family
Reunion
Then six oclock rolls around
You just finished wiping your car down
Its time to cruise so you head to the summertime hangout
It looks like a car show
Everybody come lookin real fine
Fresh from the barber shop or fly from the beauty salon
Every moment frontin and maxin
Chillin in the car they spent all day waxin
Leanin to the side but you cant spead through
Two miles an hour so everybody sees you
Theres an air of love and of happiness
And this is the fresh princes new defintion of summer madness
 
got to start someware

Crap Buddist said:
Reverse what you did and pocket 20 K....... ? whilst listening to Will Smiths Summertime.......


Summertime.....Summertime..Summertime..


Summer, summer, summertime
Time to sit back and unwind

Verse one: fresh prince

Here it is the groove slightly transformed
Just a bit of a break from the norm
Just a little somethin to break the monotony
Of all that hardcore dance that has gotten to be
A little bit out of control its cool to dance
But what about the groove that soothes that moves romance
Give me a soft subtle mix
And if aint broke then dont try to fix it
And think of the summers of the past
Adjust the base and let the alpine blast
Pop in my cd and let me run a rhyme
And put your car on cruise and lay back cause this is summertime

Chorus

Verse two: fresh prince

School is out and its a sort of a buzz
A back then I didnt really know what it was
But now I see what have of this
The way that people respond to summer madness
The weather is hot and girls are dressing less
And checking out the fellas to tell em whos best
Riding around in your jeep or your benzos
Or in your nissan stting on lorenzos
Back in philly we be ou in the park
A place called the plateau is where everybody goes
Guys out hunting and girls doing likewise
Honking at the honey in front of you with the light eyes
She turn around to see what you beeping at
Its like the summers a natural afradesiac
And with a pen and pad I compose this rhyme
To hit you and get you equipped for the summer time

Chorus

Verse three: fresh prince

Its late in the day and I aint been on the court yet
Hustle to the mall to get me a short set
Yeah I got on sneaks but I need a new pair
Cause basketball courts in the summer got girls there
The temperatures about 88
Hop in the water plug just for old times sake
Break to ya crib change your clothes once more
Cause youre invited to a barbeque thats starting at 4
Sitting with your friends cause yall remincise
About the days growing up and the first person you kiss
And as I think back makes me wonder how
The smell from a grill could spark up nostalgia
All the kids playing out front
Little boys messin round with the girls playing double-dutch
While the djs spinning a tune as the old folks dance at your family
Reunion
Then six oclock rolls around
You just finished wiping your car down
Its time to cruise so you head to the summertime hangout
It looks like a car show
Everybody come lookin real fine
Fresh from the barber shop or fly from the beauty salon
Every moment frontin and maxin
Chillin in the car they spent all day waxin
Leanin to the side but you cant spead through
Two miles an hour so everybody sees you
Theres an air of love and of happiness
And this is the fresh princes new defintion of summer madness
Click to expand...

Crap.......

Thats not bad advice ..........(y)

certainly worth a thought


or 2 :-0
 
Mug's game?

Yep. It is a mug's game - lost over £500 in three weeks. ALl they have to do is lower the price until it hits your stop loss and bingo - instant money.

One company is offering £50 free when yuou sign up. What they don't tell you is that if you close the account within three months they want it back!

If you can make money with SB then well done. But long-term hm!

Steve
 
Spread betting

Doesn't make much difference if you are talking about day or long term trading.

If you use a stop loss, the chances are that the price will fluctutate downwards at some stage and knock you out - result: losses. If you don't use a stop loss then you run the risk of even larger losses.

Oh, and if you don't keep enough money in your account to cover the SB company's predicted liabilities they will close the bet too - ergo, you lose.

By all means have a go, but in my opinion you had a ) better be good, b) have a load of money in your account c) don't use automatic stop losses and d) monitor your positions 24/7 or 8-4.30 if trading FTSE/stocks.

Leave a postion open without access to a computer at your peril - I missed out on a couple of good prices and couldn't close because of this.

Good luck. Why do you think the SB companies are so keen to sign you up and can afford to "give" you money to start?

You can make money, but the odds are against you.
 
snichols said:
Doesn't make much difference if you are talking about day or long term trading.

If you use a stop loss, the chances are that the price will fluctutate downwards at some stage and knock you out - result: losses. If you don't use a stop loss then you run the risk of even larger losses.

Oh, and if you don't keep enough money in your account to cover the SB company's predicted liabilities they will close the bet too - ergo, you lose.

By all means have a go, but in my opinion you had a ) better be good, b) have a load of money in your account c) don't use automatic stop losses and d) monitor your positions 24/7 or 8-4.30 if trading FTSE/stocks.

Leave a postion open without access to a computer at your peril - I missed out on a couple of good prices and couldn't close because of this.

Good luck. Why do you think the SB companies are so keen to sign you up and can afford to "give" you money to start?

You can make money, but the odds are against you.
Click to expand...
Sorry to hear that you made such a bad start while trading. Notice, I said trading because I don't think you would had been any more successful, trading in a DMA (direct market access). You would probably have lost even more money. There are 3 vital things (in that order) that come to mind, which have to be fulfilled, otherwise one will definitely be on the losing side.

MM= Money Management. Don't put more than 0.5% of your capital in one bet. Natural statistical fluctuations can wipe out your account if you don't adopt proper money management.

Stop loss= apply always without exception. The SB companies do not have a user predefined stop loss, that is one of the reasons I do not play it big with them.

Be careful trading the news, especially if stop loss is not user predefined.

Consider trading CFDs instead of Spread Betting if you are inexperienced, as one is able to deduct losses from taxes. That really feels good if you have made substantial losses and can get some money back that way.
 
I agree that I was rather reticent about spread betting before I started, as it does get a lot of bad press from people who have lost considerable amounts of money.

I think as with anything, you hear less about the people who win big which compounds the rumours. At the end of the day, I definitely think it is possible to be a successful trader using a spread betting platform, but for shorter term trades it isn't the easiest way to go about things.
 
gle101 said:
MM= Money Management. Don't put more than 0.5% of your capital in one bet. Natural statistical fluctuations can wipe out your account if you don't adopt proper money management.
Click to expand...

I know this is accpeted wisdom (actually Dr Elders suggestion is 2%), but this level is totally impractical.

Example: a stop loss of 500 points when betting on the direction of an index (I'm currently thinking of shorting the FTSE, and would consider this my 'You made the wrong move, dude' safety stop). This is obviously a £500 pound total liability at £1 per point, meaning that I should have an account of £100k saved up before making this move. Not going to happen.

I would risk 20%-50% of my capital (and believe me, it's nowhere near 100k!), but make sure my bets are small enough so that my stop is placed at a level last reached weeks ago. So I'm only likely to lose if the trend reverses, not from a short term spike. On the downside, my stop loss is 3 times bigger than my stop limit, so over the long term I'm much more likely to lose if I get the trend wrong 50% of the time.
 
ae589 said:
I know this is accpeted wisdom (actually Dr Elders suggestion is 2%), but this level is totally impractical.

Example: a stop loss of 500 points when betting on the direction of an index (I'm currently thinking of shorting the FTSE, and would consider this my 'You made the wrong move, dude' safety stop). This is obviously a £500 pound total liability at £1 per point, meaning that I should have an account of £100k saved up before making this move. Not going to happen.

I would risk 20%-50% of my capital (and believe me, it's nowhere near 100k!), but make sure my bets are small enough so that my stop is placed at a level last reached weeks ago. So I'm only likely to lose if the trend reverses, not from a short term spike. On the downside, my stop loss is 3 times bigger than my stop limit, so over the long term I'm much more likely to lose if I get the trend wrong 50% of the time.
Click to expand...

I understand your point of view, but I do not agree. With this kind of huge stop loss you sure need to have a substantial capital. Yes, you could definitely get the trend wrong 50% of the time. A natural statistical variation might occur and you could have a running streak of losses, being in a long term position doesn't really help. Usually calculating the stake according to a good money management includes the stop loss level, e.g. 0.5%*30=1.5% of the capital (stop loss being 30 points). Yes, 2% (stop loss included) of the capital is good money management.
 
Sorry for butting in

Hi guys, I'm new here and this my first post.

I've come from a different chat forum that I've been with since sept 07.

With regards to spreadbetting firms, just a wonder. If the price moves downward to take out your stoploss then surely the bears would hit there profit limit and earn.
Or, gives the bull more opportunity to buy more stock in at lower level, providing money management is in place to cover variation margin.

Just a thought. What do you think?
 
gle101 said:
I understand your point of view, but I do not agree. With this kind of huge stop loss you sure need to have a substantial capital. Yes, you could definitely get the trend wrong 50% of the time. A natural statistical variation might occur and you could have a running streak of losses, being in a long term position doesn't really help. Usually calculating the stake according to a good money management includes the stop loss level, e.g. 0.5%*30=1.5% of the capital (stop loss being 30 points). Yes, 2% (stop loss included) of the capital is good money management.
Click to expand...

I basically agree with what you are saying, but I'm not sure I understand your caluclation there... 0.5 * 30 is 15, and I don't see how points are relevant to the % capital, points are arbitary measures. Can you give me an example trade size (ie £ per point, stop loss and total capital). Cheers!
 
Lee Shepherd said:
Hi guys, I'm new here and this my first post.

I've come from a different chat forum that I've been with since sept 07.

With regards to spreadbetting firms, just a wonder. If the price moves downward to take out your stoploss then surely the bears would hit there profit limit and earn.
Or, gives the bull more opportunity to buy more stock in at lower level, providing money management is in place to cover variation margin.

Just a thought. What do you think?
Click to expand...
Yes this is correct, but you actually don't know for certain when the top is reached or when it bottoms out. There might be for example some unexpected world happenings that sky rocket the indices, or take them down to the deep cellar region. Thinking it simply must turn around has brought many traders to ruin. Remember a stock can reach zero value.
 
Hi gle101,

Good point and true. Indices obviously have some resistant areas of over bought/sold, so should make for better pickings if I'm right?

While I'm here, this site is very good, alot of traffic. Bit quiet where I was before. Sometimes only 2 or 3 posts a day.
 
ae589 said:
I basically agree with what you are saying, but I'm not sure I understand your caluclation there... 0.5 * 30 is 15, and I don't see how points are relevant to the % capital, points are arbitary measures. Can you give me an example trade size (ie £ per point, stop loss and total capital). Cheers!
Click to expand...
Neither do I, ha ha! With a £1 bet on the Dow and stop loss of 30 points (spread included). You risk to lose £30, if you want to risk 2% of your total capital, it means you should have funds in your account for approx. £1500. I just used points in this case to make it more understandable, but of course the stakes, stop loss included, should be calculated on the percentage of your total capital (in this case 2% money management).
 
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