Why Is The Obvious Not So Obvious?

This is a discussion on Why Is The Obvious Not So Obvious? within the Psychology, Risk & Money Management forums, part of the Methods category; Originally Posted by 10%Club In the battle between emotions and the mind, emotions usually win. in the battle between the ...

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Old Dec 17, 2015, 11:46pm   #46
 
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Originally Posted by 10%Club View Post
In the battle between emotions and the mind, emotions usually win. in the battle between the conscious and subconscious mind, the subconscious always wins.

That's the problem - what lies in your subconscious and by very definition, you can't know otherwise it would not be SUB conscious. So it's not a question of getting your emotions 'in check'. Although it might make it a little better...

Practically everyone has a greater or lesser degree of subconscious self destruct urges and this is what kills traders. After all, if you truly believed you could be rich without working, you would be by now (assuming you are at least in your 20s).

You can't take an average 9 to 5 slave worker who has been brainwashed by 'education', the media and probably parents to believe that they have to work hard and suffer to climb the career ladder (and get in debt) and expected them to make even $1,000 a week trading (easy money without real work).

Once you change those belief systems then you can happily wake up Monday morning having earned enough for the week while you were sleeping...

Then, instead of the problem being not enough money, it becomes too much money!
Very good post.

Many people think it is rude to call someone ignorant, but ignorance is no more than a lack of understanding, for whatever reason one finds oneself in that situation - could be education, upbringing, peers, and many other things as well.

Sometimes I am a bit hard on vendors, mostly due to my past experiences with some of them, but every person should make up their own mind based on their own investigations.

The too much money bit might be a little over exaggerated

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Old Dec 17, 2015, 11:54pm   #47
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Very good post.

Sometimes I am a bit hard on vendors, mostly due to my past experiences with some of them, but every person should make up their own mind based on their own investigations.

Lúidín

Thanks. I may be a vendor but that's just for fun and to have a community. I actually make over 90% of my money from actually trading...
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Old Dec 18, 2015, 12:20am   #48
 
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Thanks. I may be a vendor but that's just for fun and to have a community. I actually make over 90% of my money from actually trading...
What market/s are you trading?

Your writing does not indicate you are Spanish?
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Old Dec 18, 2015, 2:08am   #49
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What market/s are you trading?

Your writing does not indicate you are Spanish?
I'm English living the dream in that house by the sea in the Canary Islands! And yes, there is such a thing as too much money.

I trade the EUR/CHF because they rarely have any scary big moves despite no longer being tied

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Old Dec 18, 2015, 2:22am   #50
 
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I'm English living the dream in that house by the sea in the Canary Islands! And yes, there is such a thing as too much money.

I trade the EUR/CHF because they rarely have any scary big moves despite no longer being tied. I've actually been a member here for many years but lost my password and never got a response from support despite asking several times...
I don't like the sun, as us Irish tend to burn easy and break out in freckles, so I will give the Canary Islands a miss

I suppose it really does not matter what one trades, once can stick to it and get good at it. Many seem to jump from one thing to another, and never really master anything.

Even myself, at times, tend to risk some money on markets that I do not ordinarily trade, and I nearly know before i put on the trade that it will more then likely be a loser, but I make sure I only risk a small bit, with profits that I have already made.

As for the big money, yes, I believe it is possible, but only if you have lots of experience with losing and winning, for those who just win will not keep doing so, and will eventually get caught by risking too much (overtrading) trying to make a fortune.

I have found a good measure of how good you have become at trading, and that is, if you are bored then you have got over most of the obstacles, know what works best, and can speak to others with confidence, knowing that what, or they way, you trade does not really make that much difference, but, what does make all the difference is the way you think and act.

If for whatever reason, you are not thinking and acting correctly, then you stop risking good money and revert to very small risk, as keeping your money is as equally important as trading, for, trading when your mindset is not the best, will cost you, and that is a certainty, I know
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Old Dec 18, 2015, 2:56am   #51
 
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Lúidín started this thread I do believe that if you draw enough lines on a chart, then price will definitely hit some of them at some time, but as mentioned, these fib lines tend to be like magnets more often..is it a coincidence, or, are there enough Algo brothers out there with enough money to move price..maybe..maybe not..who knows the real truth..no one I suppose?

Oops..wrong thread..oh well..what harm..all part of psychology anyway
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Old Dec 20, 2015, 12:26pm   #52
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In my opinion knowledge is the most important part of trading, but the psychology is equally important. Psychology as in having self-control, knowing oneself and one's own limitations and flaws and working on correcting those, as well as having an understanding how other traders react to different events.
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Old Dec 20, 2015, 3:00pm   #53
 
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In my opinion knowledge is the most important part of trading, but the psychology is equally important. Psychology as in having self-control, knowing oneself and one's own limitations and flaws and working on correcting those, as well as having an understanding how other traders react to different events.
hi ds..i think one needs to be careful with the knowledge bit..as a little knowledge in the wrong hands can be very dangerous..which means..a lot of people who start out..discover new knowledge..and then go and risk their money..without fully understanding the consequences of their actions based on their new found knowledge..for if they did..they would not risk so much money on a single trade

so..the question is..why do people do such things?

is it because of the way they think..or the way they don't think!
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Old Dec 20, 2015, 8:47pm   #54
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No doubt the title will have some thinking

As can be seen from the number of posts in this section of the site, it is "obvious" that the majority of those who are seeking knowledge in relation to making money trading, have not done any solid ground work prior to starting.

If you were to build a house, would you put in 6 inches of concrete for the foundation?

I could make a list, but I will not bother, as I try to keep things simple and short.

So, why is it that the majority of people do not take very seriously the mental aspects (psychology) of trading, as it is by far the most important aspect.

What does the "psychology" of trading mean to you, and if you go off and search the internet for an answer, then the only person you are fooling is yourself.

You must speak exactly what comes out of your mind, and not use words of others.

Lúidín
There are many analogies regarding trading......boringly so in fact

Climbing Everest is actually not too bad.....anyone who,underestimates the training , the equipment and the years of experience needed will lose it way before the summit

Anyone who,makes it to the dizzy heights of consistent profitability has endured way beyond the rest........they have to be the full package of skills already discussed here.......and that's rare......

plenty gain the knowledge....plenty have the capital...plenty have the tools.......and plenty have the intelligence........some are even luckily enough to have the objectivity and ability to make those calls when the chips are down......

But rolled together and applied day in day out ?,.......few are chosen !!

It's hard enough to make money........hanging on to it is even harder

N
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Old Dec 21, 2015, 1:59pm   #55
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hi ds..i think one needs to be careful with the knowledge bit..as a little knowledge in the wrong hands can be very dangerous..which means..a lot of people who start out..discover new knowledge..and then go and risk their money..without fully understanding the consequences of their actions based on their new found knowledge..for if they did..they would not risk so much money on a single trade

so..the question is..why do people do such things?

is it because of the way they think..or the way they don't think!
Oh, I absolutely agree. People who know just a little bit can make a much bigger mess than those who know nothing. As to why that happens, I think it's just arrogance and recklessness. Obviously this is a sweeping generalization - there are plenty of newbies who are cautious and willing to learn more, but there are always those who have learned a little bit and think they know everything.
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Old Dec 21, 2015, 9:45pm   #56
 
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Oh, I absolutely agree. People who know just a little bit can make a much bigger mess than those who know nothing. As to why that happens, I think it's just arrogance and recklessness. Obviously this is a sweeping generalization - there are plenty of newbies who are cautious and willing to learn more, but there are always those who have learned a little bit and think they know everything.
Or you could call it stupidity ds.

I am not ashamed to say I was very stupid in the past, even still do stupid things now and again, but not as near as frequent as the past.

With so much information, it is no wonder most who try are confused, and take years to find the common sense approach (if they last that is), which of course is always the best approach.

We could talk about it "till the cows come home" - Irish saying - as things will never change for most, just the way it is.
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Old Jul 15, 2017, 10:25am   #57
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Originally Posted by 10%Club View Post
In the battle between emotions and the mind, emotions usually win. in the battle between the conscious and subconscious mind, the subconscious always wins.

That's the problem - what lies in your subconscious and by very definition, you can't know otherwise it would not be SUB conscious. So it's not a question of getting your emotions 'in check'. Although it might make it a little better...

Practically everyone has a greater or lesser degree of subconscious self destruct urges and this is what kills traders. After all, if you truly believed you could be rich without working, you would be by now (assuming you are at least in your 20s).

You can't take an average 9 to 5 slave worker who has been brainwashed by 'education', the media and probably parents to believe that they have to work hard and suffer to climb the career ladder (and get in debt) and expected them to make even $1,000 a week trading (easy money without real work).

Once you change those belief systems then you can happily wake up Monday morning having earned enough for the week while you were sleeping...

Then, instead of the problem being not enough money, it becomes too much money!
Do you know why traders get sucked into taking much higher position sizes , this is done by the subconscious automatic mind in trading.
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Old Jul 15, 2017, 10:48am   #58
 
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Dec 17, 2015, 8:32pm ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Click the image to open in full size.
your new nickname is in fact necro as you constantly bring back dead threads and then SPAM them with garbage.
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Old Jul 15, 2017, 10:55am   #59
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Dec 17, 2015, 8:32pm ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Click the image to open in full size.
your new nickname is in fact necro as you constantly bring back dead threads and then SPAM them with garbage.
I asked a question , I DID NOT SPAM , I have a problem with a question of increasing position size subconsciously.
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Old Jul 15, 2017, 10:58am   #60
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No doubt the title will have some thinking


So, why is it that the majority of people do not take very seriously the mental aspects (psychology) of trading, as it is by far the most important aspect.

What does the "psychology" of trading mean to you, and if you go off and search the internet for an answer, then the only person you are fooling is yourself.



Lúidín
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No one can answer the question for anyone else, but we can make assumptions by reading what people post.

I think that what people fail to realize, is that there is a required learning curve in "the art of losing", as this goes against all we have been taught with our archaic education system.

How can someone in their right mind, start making money by learning how to lose money!

Have you ever seen any person post in a thread, asking for someone to show them how to lose correctly?

Also, learning how to lose correctly is but the start, for if you become an expert at only losing, then you will "obviously" not make any money.

If a person is not aware, and willing to radically change, the way they normally think then the odds of succeeding is very low, and that person will more than likely join the stats, which I have no doubt is indeed around 95%, if not even a bit higher.

Lúidín
I will use my own words , most here won't like them.

The trading industry knows the importance of trading psychology , brokers have tried taking on traders to trade for them on salaries and they have also offered investing schemes (for their own selected traders to trade invested monies).The results were appalling , they lost for investors.

The whole trading industry benefactors , rely on hiding the importance of trading psychology , in order to attract new traders to open accounts.If a broker , mentor or vendor , was to advertise "you will lose because the traders are wired to lose " , nobody from the vendor side is going to make money .This is because they won't attract new traders , the brokerage model relies on new recruits to replace the losers of this year. Mentors will not get new subscribers and educators will lose out .It is all against the interests of trading industry vendors , to inform them about the psyche .

There are forums like forex factory , where there is no psychology sections and there are other forums where psychology threads are debunked and the content rebutted and dismissed .Forex factory has advertisers , some of them are bucket shops , they gain when traders lose.So why introduce a psychology section?Give them 2500 trading systems and let the blind lose their money.Your paymaster is the bucket shops , do what benefits your paymaster.

Everything in the trading industry is marketed on a positive criteria , of trade the system and you will make money , buy my method and you will make money , buy my book and you will make money.Buy my trend trading seminars and books , you will make money.

These suckers don't know the truth , until they go on a live account , there they experience 80% is psychology.These suckers were sucked into it by the advertising and promotion of trading and making money.This works well and humans have greed about money , so the the suckers who fell for it end up in the 95% club.


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