How good are you at trading - just be honest

This is a discussion on How good are you at trading - just be honest within the Psychology, Risk & Money Management forums, part of the Methods category; Originally Posted by timsk Hi Doomberg, Take the chart of the Dow short you posted earlier. The screen shot is ...

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Old Apr 16, 2013, 5:58pm   #31
x4x
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Re: How good are you at trading - just be honest

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Originally Posted by timsk View Post
Hi Doomberg,
Take the chart of the Dow short you posted earlier. The screen shot is around the low of the day. When it started to reverse back up - what did you think? As you watched price creep towards b/e and your nice profit gradually eroded away - what did you think then? If you were sitting at your screen with your fingers crossed, hoping and praying it would reverse back down - then you're likely to be disappointed with the outcome more often than not. You need to be prepared for that to happen. Indeed, expect it to happen and have a plan of action for when it does.

A hedge is just one possibility. You could have neutralized the effect of the reversal back up by taking a long position on the June future (SB firm's version of the YM). So long as IG's spread isn't silly (and they can be with some SB firms - e.g. 6pts with Cap' Spreads!) you'll lock in some profit - no matter what price does. Try it. It might not work for you: you might not be comfortable with it. However, at the very least, it should help to cap how much you lose.
Tim.
I don't see his problem as watching the trade turn into a loss, losses happen and have to be accepted. To me the two main problems were he shouldn't really have been going short, and he shouldn't have been trading at a level that would blow his account. I think he needs to address his MM and strategy before considering a hedging strategy, - as hedging can also be costly and complex.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 5:59pm   #32
 
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Re: How good are you at trading - just be honest

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Hardly controversial.
I was recommending he reads a post about scaling out of a profitable trade. That said post is by a vendor is neither here nor there. Being a vendor does not preclude one from making interesting and worhwhile posts choc-a-bloc full of good ideas.
I think it stinks Tim, you must be on commission from that vendor. Does sharkey know you are moonlighting.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 6:07pm   #33
 
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Re: How good are you at trading - just be honest

Doomberg started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by timsk View Post
Hi Doomberg,
Take the chart of the Dow short you posted earlier. The screen shot is around the low of the day. When it started to reverse back up - what did you think? As you watched price creep towards b/e and your nice profit gradually eroded away - what did you think then? If you were sitting at your screen with your fingers crossed, hoping and praying it would reverse back down - then you're likely to be disappointed with the outcome more often than not. You need to be prepared for that to happen. Indeed, expect it to happen and have a plan of action for when it does.

A hedge is just one possibility. You could have neutralized the effect of the reversal back up by taking a long position on the June future (SB firm's version of the YM). So long as IG's spread isn't silly (and they can be with some SB firms - e.g. 6pts with Cap' Spreads!) you'll lock in some profit - no matter what price does. Try it. It might not work for you: you might not be comfortable with it. However, at the very least, it should help to cap how much you lose.
Tim.
Not only did i do all of what i have coloured in bold, i actually added 3 more positions of the same size, got stopped.... and then decided to risk the entire account on one position with a guaranteed stop

Lol yes, i know i need therapy of some sort.... what's worse is that i know i actually do have some talent, but my complete lack of discipline destroys everything, i even went to see a hypnotist... and it did nothing for me
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 6:08pm   #34
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Re: How good are you at trading - just be honest

As an aside, trading with IG you can hold Long and Short the same market, no need to use the June future.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 6:08pm   #35
 
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Re: How good are you at trading - just be honest

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Originally Posted by Lee Shepherd View Post
Hi Doomberg,

Do you compile stats and if so are you willing to post them here?

Lee
Not really made any stats tbh, what type do you mean Lee?
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 6:09pm   #36
 
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Re: How good are you at trading - just be honest

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Originally Posted by Shakone View Post
Is this a joke? I think it probably is, but I have zero sense of humour and I don't really know your posting style well, so just checking.
Lol no seriously, it actually happened... adding to a losing position
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 6:10pm   #37
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Re: How good are you at trading - just be honest

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Not only did i do all of what i have coloured in bold, i actually added 3 more positions of the same size, got stopped.... and then decided to risk the entire account on one position with a guaranteed stop

Lol yes, i know i need therapy of some sort.... what's worse is that i know i actually do have some talent, but my complete lack of discipline destroys everything, i even went to see a hypnotist... and it did nothing for me
Mate, you really do need to seek some help, you can't keep doing this to yourself.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 6:14pm   #38
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Re: How good are you at trading - just be honest

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Originally Posted by Doomberg View Post
Not only did i do all of what i have coloured in bold, i actually added 3 more positions of the same size, got stopped.... and then decided to risk the entire account on one position with a guaranteed stop

Lol yes, i know i need therapy of some sort.... what's worse is that i know i actually do have some talent, but my complete lack of discipline destroys everything, i even went to see a hypnotist... and it did nothing for me
If you insist on continuing trading then extreme measures need to be taken.

You need to be kicked in the @ss and have discipline forced on you. Call your broker and ask if they will limit your account to a max leverage of 1:25. At least that will stop you from blowing your account after 1 or 2 trades. That will give you some peace of mind and allow you to concentrate you an actual method of trading.


Peter
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 6:18pm   #39
 
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Re: How good are you at trading - just be honest

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Lol no seriously, it actually happened... adding to a losing position
Then read The Artist's post above. It doesn't help wondering how good others are, it's irrelevant to you. Maybe you want comfort knowing others are failing too.

Decide what you want. Judging by the statement you blew an account on a relatively small intraday move, you don't want to trade, you're not at all interested in good trading.

What is it you want to do?
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 6:22pm   #40
 
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Re: How good are you at trading - just be honest

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Originally Posted by Doomberg View Post
Not really made any stats tbh, what type do you mean Lee?
You must keep stats/records of some kind. How do you know what trades you have done in the past, especially the bad ones. The brain can be very selective in what we believe we have achieved/done and not done. Records (if done correctly) never lie.

You should have a trading history with your broker so compiling shouldn't be too much trouble, but yes it will take time to do if not done along the way.

Stats that are important so you can analyse what you are doing like for example a diary for mental purposes/feelings/moods/beliefs ect can be very helpful but more to the point......

Risk parameters
Risk/Rewards
Stop levels
Target price
% of account used on single trade (or multiples if several contracts)
Number of trades
Number of days
Biggest loss/biggest gain

If you want, throw me across what you have and i'll work backwards from there.

Lee
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 6:30pm   #41
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Re: How good are you at trading - just be honest

you need to stop gambling. it is simply down to you. rather like a cigarette smoker on his last pack, no amount of patches/gum will make you stop. The thing that made me stop was a veteran trader saying to me 'does your wife know you are throwing this money away'. That's what worked for me, others will differ.

only start trading again when you are confident you have a solid edge as evidenced by a rolling 50 trade sample, and then only trade for chump change, scaling up very slowly.

What Lee said about record keeping is spot on, I have only ever met 2 profitable traders and both keep immaculate records.

Of course everyone on the internet is an expert so don't be too hard on yourself, profitable traders are like rocking horse 7hit. very rare.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 6:37pm   #42
 
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Re: How good are you at trading - just be honest

Doomberg started this thread
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Originally Posted by wackypete2 View Post
If you insist on continuing trading then extreme measures need to be taken.

You need to be kicked in the @ss and have discipline forced on you. Call your broker and ask if they will limit your account to a max leverage of 1:25. At least that will stop you from blowing your account after 1 or 2 trades. That will give you some peace of mind and allow you to concentrate you an actual method of trading.


Peter
I opened a Futures account with Infinity and tbh i found trading futures much more complicated, i wasn't giving it the attention i should of. After some losses from silly position sizes i had that fixed, but biggest issue after having my position sizes fixed, was allowing too much loss in one day, again after having a loss just jumping back in to a crap trade... account blown again, back to IG

I need to have a serious think don't i, because i really want this, and i can do it, but my demons cripple me
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 6:45pm   #43
 
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Re: How good are you at trading - just be honest

Doomberg started this thread
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Originally Posted by The Artist View Post
I was thinking the same
Obviously, this can't be a post about "trading" if any position you take has a realistic chance of wiping you out.
It doesn't matter how many charts you look at to pick out entry and exit, if you have no money management whatsoever it's still "punting"
In which case don't even bother about technical and/or fundamental analysis. Just log in, buy or sell anything liquid, set fixed stops and limits, and hope that time is the one.

You're right, i just struggle with MM, and i don't know how to stop it
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 6:54pm   #44
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Re: How good are you at trading - just be honest

Timsk,

This thread should be included in your 'first steps'. It's an unusually honest indication as to the chances of a new trader ever making a cent at this game.

I'm surprised the brokers aren't trying to get it deleted.
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Old Apr 16, 2013, 7:01pm   #45
 
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Re: How good are you at trading - just be honest

Doomberg started this thread Lee Shepard / Cablemonster... you're both right, back to the drawing board i go!
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