Trading Psychology, Can you put a price tag on it?

coolTrader

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I just received and invite for a workshop worth over £1600. The question is, will you pay to have someone tell you, "When you are upset do not click the button".

Or would you rather pay someone to examine what could have gone wrong with my psyche to pay that amount in the first place.


Well... just a thought I know lots of people love it.
 
I'm note sure about that but the price of not developing the right psychology is probably failure. Developing the right psychological framework for the edge you are trading is crucially important. The excellent Mark Douglas (Trading in the Zone, The Disciplined Trader etc...) talks about the 'Profit Gap' ie the gap between having a profitable trading edge -and- executing that trading edge such that it delivers the profit. This gap of course if the trader's own psychology whether it be in being patient enough to wait for the set-ups, or disciplined enough to play them correctly when they come along...or in not gettig involved in any frustration/boredom trades, or trying to exacvt revernge on the market for a loss. There are a whole host of psychological obstacles we must overcome and skills we must build to fill that gap.

I am convinced that it is in having/developing the necessary psychological framework for the particular edge you are trading (assuming of course that edge suits your own personality/needs/toleranes and you know all you need to know about that edge,) that is a big factor in seperating the consistently profitable traders from the rest. It is also very probable that this process will take time, practice and constant evaluation.

Think of every successful trade, trading session, trading day/week/month etc as a battle won, but the war is probably never won....we must strive to maintain and build upon this framework at all times.

G/L



I just received and invite for a workshop worth over £1600. The question is, will you pay to have someone tell you, "When you are upset do not click the button".

Or would you rather pay someone to examine what could have gone wrong with my psyche to pay that amount in the first place.


Well... just a thought I know lots of people love it.
 
The question is these emotions are present all the time. When I am at my peak trading I am swift decisive and do not look back with regrets. I know my rules and I stick by them (well...occasionally :) ).

Isn't it a case of " I don't want my child to climb up trees because when I did I fell down and broke my spine".

Based on your experience which, do you think is more effective, climbing up the tree and learning to avoid falling , not climbing at all or climbing while under guidance?
 
The question is these emotions are present all the time. When I am at my peak trading I am swift decisive and do not look back with regrets. I know my rules and I stick by them (well...occasionally :) ).

Isn't it a case of " I don't want my child to climb up trees because when I did I fell down and broke my spine".

Based on your experience which, do you think is more effective, climbing up the tree and learning to avoid falling , not climbing at all or climbing while under guidance?

I would say the first and/or the last...of course it is always preferable to have guidance but it can be done without, probably just a bigger tree.

G/L
 
bbmac's suggestion for Mark Douglas's book - Trading in the Zone would be money well spent. I only paid $15 for the book, but felt I got thousands of dollars of "worth" from it. I've read it many times, each time letting the information sink further in.

If you paid 1600 for the course, and you came out and it turned your life around for the better, then the cost was a bargain for the worth you got out of it. That is something only you can determine.

>>Isn't it a case of " I don't want my child to climb up trees because when I did I fell down and broke my spine".


http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy.html
 
Who's it with? what's their rep? can you talk to previous participants?

Is the price low, high, average?

What's it offering, miracles, training, exercises? what's the detail?

Judging the workshops potential value without knowing a bit more is pretty difficult.
 
IMHO there is no need to go on a course to learn about trading psychology. A decent book as alluded to above will more than suffice, afterall realistically, what are you going to learn on the course that you won't from a good book? This isn't really a case of needing to be around others in the same boat (a'la the difference between a distance-learning MBA vs class-taught MBA), I would hazard a guess that in the seminar there will be some key rules to follow, examples of bad or good decisions etc etc.

Funnily enough, some of the oldest cliches do actually ring true when it comes to psyche eg don't be a d1ck for a tick etc etc

That said, if you can't read or something (i hope you can) then I would go on the course as psychology is key if you are not running a pure system. I trade non-systematically most of the time therefore, psychology is key on a day to day basis hence, having a clear idea of your mental strengths and weakenesses can be critical..........particularly for the larger trades one might put on!

ps another good book is "come into my trading room"
 
The problem with most Wannbee traders is they read stuff like this and want to have the psyche of "High Performance Traders" before they can even tell the difference between a tick and a dick

get the basics right and read all the free stuff on the internet and practice for 6 months ....worry about "Psycology" a little later on in the game ...if there is a later on !

N

OK - look at Steve Wards books if you really want an intro into this stuff - Steves a good guy and deals with the "heads" of the best traders in the world....his book is available for about $15-$20........save yourself $1500 !
 
The problem with most Wannbee traders is they read stuff like this and want to have the psyche of "High Performance Traders" before they can even tell the difference between a tick and a dick

get the basics right and read all the free stuff on the internet and practice for 6 months ....worry about "Psycology" a little later on in the game ...if there is a later on !

QUOTE]


Surely Psychology is one of the basics? Certainly it was my biggest downfall when I was first trading. I could understand the charts pretty well, intepret news events well and more but I hadn't learnt how to, handle big winning or losing days, consistently evaluate or re-evaluate what I was doing etc etc Understanding that helped me just as much as understanding how to read a chart, interpret a news event/data release. Everyone's different so maybe what i'm describing is idiosyncratic to me but not picking up bad habits in the first place will save you a lot of p/l. As in everything, a sound mental approach is just as fundamental as solid technical skills. Goes for sport, goes for dating, does for just about anything where you do not purely systematically.

I'll give you an example, you're taught to have a trading plan and to stick to the plan. However, sometimes you throw the plan out of the window mid-trading and either trade on the fly or devise a new one. Understanding what drove you to that decision (whether it was right or wrong) will help you next time the same or a similar situation occurs.

Understanding how important psychology is has helped me.......well, let's just say, it's helped me get to a place in my career i wanted to get to!!!!!
 
fair enough .....

but it sounds like you were not a beginner when you hit the problems ...a lot of what I am saying refers to beginners who want to be in the Zone and high performance trading before they know a tick from a dick .....

N
 
lol believe me i didn't know the difference in the beginning. :) ;)

I just reckon a lot of people don't start with the right mentality and acquire some bad habits whilst still learning which they fail to shake off. Maybe others are different from me but it took me ages to get rid of them and to be honest, I still even have to make sure I don't fall back into old ways now even when trading size.

lol can't believe I used to try and scalp FX futures, double into losers with no valid reason, not stop trading when I was clearly not calling things correctly, lol the list is long and distinguished.............. like my johnson :) (props to topgun hahahah)
 
I realise it is a cliche but, nonetheless, true: the biggest enemy in trading is yourself. People who have never traded live do not realise just how powerful the mind is until they put on a live trade and watch their investment fluctuate in value from minute to minute etc.
 
ha, too right, I absolutely smashed the sim at my first place (prop shop) and was so confident that going live, I started off pretty well until the first big loss comes along and slaps some reality into the mix!
 
Technically trading is very easy - that's why nearly everyone with just a little understanding can make a profit on a demo account.

Then they go live and that's when they fall out of the tree - this proves that the only difference between success and failure is our own psyche.

Most don't like to accept this as it's hard admitting to our own shortcomings, so they blame the broker, you see it on this forum all the time.

When they're through with blaming the broker they start trying to predict prices - if you can predict prices you won't have to suffer losing a trade - whoopee!!!

Again, you see this on here time and time again. Squiggly lines showing where the market is going to go, level 2, volume, order book - you name it, it is all here, and the only reason it's here is because they haven't yet (and perhaps never will) learned to accept their losses, or learned to cut their losses and let their winners run.

But I don't believe that you can change your psyche from reading a book or attending a course - yes you can learn to understand it, but changing it comes from within - and it's the equivalent of never driving over the speed limit, never getting up 1 minute late, never drinking more than one glass of wine, never putting the washing up off until tomorrow etc. etc. etc.
 
I just received and invite for a workshop worth over £1600. The question is, will you pay to have someone tell you, "When you are upset do not click the button".

So I would rather put this money into trading than pay them to the psychologist. Well I know psychology matters but I'm really not sure, should I pay such money for things, which I can read in books or on the internet.
 
Well I know psychology matters but I'm really not sure, should I pay such money for things, which I can read in books or on the internet.

Trading psychology is not about what you know on the subject but rather the discipline to follow what you know.
 
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I think traders psychology plays a big part into each new live trader blowing their first account.

I always tell people no matter how good your virtual trading experience and results are or have been always expect and get used to the idea that you will blow up your first live account purely from the psychological angle which you can not and will not experience fully until you are live. If you don't blow your account it's then a bonus and good for you, or lucky for you which ever it might be.

Back to the original question, I do not think you can put a price on it. Sure you can have some advice that it's coming your way or of ways to deal with it and or reassurance for your trading but only time served will earn you the stripes of psychological success... if you can handle it.

Everyone's psychological road and short comings are different.
 
I think traders psychology plays a big part into each new live trader blowing their first account.

I always tell people no matter how good your virtual trading experience and results are or have been always expect and get used to the idea that you will blow up your first live account purely from the psychological angle which you can not and will not experience fully until you are live. If you don't blow your account it's then a bonus and good for you, or lucky for you which ever it might be.

Back to the original question, I do not think you can put a price on it. Sure you can have some advice that it's coming your way or of ways to deal with it and or reassurance for your trading but only time served will earn you the stripes of psychological success... if you can handle it.

Everyone's psychological road and short comings are different.

Kinda agree with that...
 
So what do you think you need to hire coach for that and you can't work under your discipline by yourself?

Try following your trading plan over the next one hundred trades from opening to closing of trade. That should tell you whether you have sufficient self discipline.
 
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