1 Point - 100 contracts - $1.1 million

It's possible to trade 1000's of contracts in the ES, and generally I think most people would agree 1 point a day is fairly achievable, so where are all these monster traders making millions a year by trading hundreds of contracts and targetting a fairly easy point or two a day?
Am I missing a crucial element of the equation here? is there a psychological barrier to upping the contracts beyond a certain point? Is a point a day actually harder to get than most people think?

Fader. Have you ever concidered the concept of money?

RUDEBOY said:

Fader. Have you ever concidered the concept of money?

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Now how did i know you would be the first to respond?
Cant we get along? I'm just like you... only better looking, smarter and dress better

Fader said:

It's possible to trade 1000's of contracts in the ES, and generally I think most people would agree 1 point a day is fairly achievable, so where are all these monster traders making millions a year by trading hundreds of contracts and targetting a fairly easy point or two a day?
Am I missing a crucial element of the equation here? is there a psychological barrier to upping the contracts beyond a certain point? Is a point a day actually harder to get than most people think?

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Netting 250 pips a year in the ES, especially in this low volaility time, is very hard imho.
As most people have losing days you need to probably net 3pts a day on winning days
to catch up.

Also if you trade once a day you need to make about 75pts a year just to cover spread
and comms (ie to breakeven). If you trade twice day you need to make double that just
to breakeven.

The pit traders on the CME could do it much easier, they had no spread, almost zero
commision and could see the big order flow and so sniff out the breakouts from the
fakeouts.

Ahhh so math isn't the problem, nor money as ludeboy thinks, tis that ever present gerbil in the Gere, a consistent profit

I disagree that you can buy thousands of contracts easily.

You generally cannot without slippage as there is often around 300-500 on the bid and offer.

If you can make 1 point per day net over a year then you will be wealthy. However it aint that easy.

JonnyT

Fader said:

It's possible to trade 1000's of contracts in the ES, and generally I think most people would agree 1 point a day is fairly achievable, so where are all these monster traders making millions a year by trading hundreds of contracts and targetting a fairly easy point or two a day?
Am I missing a crucial element of the equation here? is there a psychological barrier to upping the contracts beyond a certain point? Is a point a day actually harder to get than most people think?

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it all depends on how much risk you are prepared to put up to get that point.

how do you want to get that point? 4 trades of 1 tick?
2 trades of 2 ticks
1 trade for the whole point?

clearly the more trades, the higher the costs.

so, will you infact need 2 trades of 3 ticks to get your point and costs?

what about doubling your trade size and going for 1 trade of 2 ticks? (plus costs)

it all depends on your system and your costs.

liquidity will also have to be factored. what times of day is the liquidity there for you to do this?

easy as it may sound - clearly it isnt as everyone would all be doing it.

however you are probably on the right path by having an objective and now figuring out how to get there - probably with a quality approach to your trade frequency rather than a quantity approach

good luck

Fader said:

It's possible to trade 1000's of contracts in the ES, and generally I think most people would agree 1 point a day is fairly achievable, so where are all these monster traders making millions a year by trading hundreds of contracts and targetting a fairly easy point or two a day?
Am I missing a crucial element of the equation here? is there a psychological barrier to upping the contracts beyond a certain point? Is a point a day actually harder to get than most people think?

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Fader,
Let us spin this one around.
Why do,nt you do the logic & the math and start a thread telling us whether it is a worthwhile exercise and how it is done.

JonnyT said:

I disagree that you can buy thousands of contracts easily.

You generally cannot without slippage as there is often around 300-500 on the bid and offer.

If you can make 1 point per day net over a year then you will be wealthy. However it aint that easy.

JonnyT

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lol - so why not spreadbet!! size isnt an issue then is it!!! hehehehe!! this is why goldman sachs et al dont trade exchange contracts, they just open accounts with ig!! its also tax free.

(c'mon guys lighten up - its a joke!!)

commanderco said:

Fader,
Let us spin this one around.
Why do,nt you do the logic & the math and start a thread telling us whether it is a worthwhile exercise and how it is done.

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Now what would be the fun in that? I can listen to my own opinion anytime (wife not withstanding) when i come here i like to hear others

JonnyT said:

I disagree that you can buy thousands of contracts easily.

You generally cannot without slippage as there is often around 300-500 on the bid and offer.

If you can make 1 point per day net over a year then you will be wealthy. However it aint that easy.

JonnyT

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Yes but the actual formula for $1.1 million is based on 100 contracts so the question still stands

Fader said:

Now what would be the fun in that? I can listen to my own opinion anytime (wife not withstanding) when i come here i like to hear others

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Appreciate your candor Fader.

Fader said:

Yes but the actual formula for $1.1 million is based on 100 contracts so the question still stands

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I think the most important formula is the formula for consistently clearing 1 pt a day in profits. if you can do it with 1ct, you can do it with as many cts as the market will tolerate.

The problem is not in the size of trading, but in the method.