Trading System Subscriptions

This is a discussion on Trading System Subscriptions within the Home Trader forums, part of the Trading Career category; Dear rjs1956. it seems you have already received a lot of good responses here. I will just add my 2p: ...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Jul 9, 2017, 9:22pm   #9
Joined Jan 2006
Dear rjs1956.
it seems you have already received a lot of good responses here.

I will just add my 2p:
I think your initial question is a very good one - why would they bother to sell their signals rather than trading it themselves?

There are quite some benefits to traders running live trading rooms, in that it creates more structure and discipline for them, and often 'forces' them to be better traders - though this can often be balanced out by the 'need to trade' and 'need to perform' - trading is hard enough as it is - why then place more pressure on yourself during the trading day! All that reasoning, however, is less applicable to non-real-time signal services.

One good question to ask yourself, when considering live trading rooms or signal services, is whether, aside from potentially having profitable trades - what learning will you receive from the signal provider - depending on the provider, they may provide a lot of analysis and explanation for their trades - meaning you can learn a lot from their experience - and this approach is generally far cheaper than if you were to hire them as a coach. I learned a great deal from participating in different rooms - the learning was a bigger benefit then the actual trades that came out of the room - but this depends a lot on how well the trader explains his/her trades - often trial periods are sufficient for establishing this and/or just signing up for 1 month.

Hope that helps.
__________________
Check out my FX trading blog - updated 5-8 times a month - entertaining and educational!

And for a honest look into trading, check out my T2W member profile (published Dec2015)
options-george is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 16, 2017, 1:16am   #10
 
Forex-Jedi's Avatar
 
6 Posts
Joined Jul 2017
Quote:
"The nagging question for me always is - if the system were good the guru should be independently wealthy and therefore not need to charge for memberships."
Not necessarily.

In my opinion, by far the most difficult part of trading is developing a profitable strategy. Hard, frustrating work that takes a long time, but is ultimately rewarding.

Once you have a profitable strategy, you might think that's it, your rich. All you have to do is trade that strategy and you're home and dry, right? Wrong.

Monetising a successful strategy is far from easy. For a start, you need a capital to trade with. Sensible money-management rules dictate you not risk more than, say, 2% of your capital at any time, and this fact alone places a cap on the amount of profit you can make in a given timescale.

So even if you have $10,000 of capital, and your strategy gains 10% per month (which would be an excellent strategy) that's still only $1,000. You can't live off that, and it's probably better to re-invest it anyway.

So it's no surprise that there's plenty of traders out there with profitable strategies who look to make an income from it by selling subscriptions or signals.

The fact that a trader does that does not mean their strategy is not a good one.
Forex-Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 16, 2017, 12:18pm   #11
NVP
 
NVP's Avatar
Joined Jun 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjs1956 View Post
This is a general opinion question. I am always wondering why gurus charge for "membership" in order to participate in their trading system. The nagging question for me always is - if the system were good the guru should be independently wealthy and therefore not need to charge for memberships. It is perplexing. I always want to ask them how well they are doing with their own strategy. And if they need the subscription money so much then perhaps their strategy is not as good as they say.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?
for centuries the wealthy have always paid for professional advice and money management ........they outsource this specialisation whilst they conentrate their personal efforts on other things ......

as long as that service can deliver the goods then everyone wins

regarding your question .......if we set aside the high % of vendors that cant trade for toffee and are trying to make a few bucks conning traders with courses and systems ......

lets focus on the few that actually can make money but also choose to sell their training and services (as in my example above)

why ?

well it is regular income stream that they can use to leverage other activities .......just because you are good at trading doesnt mean you already have infinite capital available to leverage your trading ........so use other peoples money like all smart business people do .........

sure theres other possible reasons .......some traders like to train and it adds more dimension to the boredom of trading .......who knows ?....giving something back ? .........whatever

if you ever have trained or mentored a lot of people you would realise how much a responsibility it is and how draining it can be if you are doing it properly .so there fore like any training business it demands a decent return .....

again my caveat here is the few trainers and courses that genuinely help and work ..........the others are just mugging traders off for quick money

N
NVP is offline Coach/Trainer   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 9, 2017, 9:19pm   #12
 
Quantt's Avatar
Joined Jul 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjs1956 View Post
This is a general opinion question. I am always wondering why gurus charge for "membership" in order to participate in their trading system. The nagging question for me always is - if the system were good the guru should be independently wealthy and therefore not need to charge for memberships. It is perplexing. I always want to ask them how well they are doing with their own strategy. And if they need the subscription money so much then perhaps their strategy is not as good as they say.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?
Fishing and Doctors are not good examples, because in the market not only you might not catch fish, but you will loose all your fishing equipment, similar with the doctor's example...

Wealthy people can hire professionals to manage their money, but yet to see a hedge fund manager gives his trading strategy to his clients...

For so many years watching the markets, I am yet to see a "trading guru mentor" to sell a successful trading strategy that can be verified by a 3rd party auditors...

All of them are charlatans scamming the new traders and no wonder 95% of the traders fail...

Just check this website and read trough the heart breaking stories of people trusting and losing the dream of freedom and financial Independence...

https://www.tradingschools.org/
__________________
"If you don't find a way to make money while you sleep, you will work until you die." Warren Buffett, CEO of Berkshire Hathaway.

My number 1 trading rule: EDUCATE YOURSELF!

Before you trade even single penny on the stock market, please spend the time and educate yourself by back testing different trading strategies and ideas - go to eBay and search for "historical stock market data", you can buy 20 years of data for less than $100 - that's all you need to start.
Quantt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 10, 2017, 6:33am   #13
Joined Apr 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceMan View Post
IMO to be a successful trader, one has to treat it like they are setting up and running a business.
That seems to imply if someone wants to be a successful roulette player, all they have to do is set up a roulette playing business, then their mathematical odds in roulette will increase ?

In fact the best way to be a successful roulette player is not set up a business but to study the practices of the casino and see if there are any weaknesses in what they do and then take advantage of the weakness. Same applies in trading.

For instance, in trading, the weakness of the merchants who operate markets is that they depend very heavily on misinformation to hoodwink their customers. So, if you ignore their misinformation such as setting up businesses and other seemingly clever ideas, you would have gained an advantage on them.
EnlightenedJoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 10, 2017, 8:13am   #14
Joined Feb 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceMan View Post
IMO to be a successful trader, one has to treat it like they are setting up and running a business. If I do decide to open my own thread over on Trader's Journal, I will probably touch on this in more detail.

This is a key principle, and one that people who run actual businesses sometimes seem to lose sight of. The point, and the only point, of a business is to make money.

Trading especially but not uniquely seems to attract people who have other objectives layered over making money, and these only complicate their business decisions.

Its amazing that periodically we see threads on various forums asking "What are your reasons for trading?". This should be the most redundant question ever. The answer is to make money. Nothing else is relevant to trading.
tomorton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 10, 2017, 9:30am   #15
 
sminicooper's Avatar
Joined Jun 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomorton View Post
This is a key principle, and one that people who run actual businesses sometimes seem to lose sight of. The point, and the only point, of a business is to make money.

Trading especially but not uniquely seems to attract people who have other objectives layered over making money, and these only complicate their business decisions.

Its amazing that periodically we see threads on various forums asking "What are your reasons for trading?". This should be the most redundant question ever. The answer is to make money. Nothing else is relevant to trading.
Isn't that one of the (to me anyway) strange things that trading psychologists reveal about people – that they have other, subconscious reasons for trading i.e. they get out of the market whatever it is they want. So presumably 80% of traders want to lose money? Or maybe they just like the pain/excitement/disappointment of making failed trades?

I've only ever wanted to make money out of the market and can't really see any other logical reason for a continued participation if it ends up being a drain on hard earned resources. Sure, it's great fun, it's nice to see a trade "come together" blah blah and all the rest of it – but if there is no financial reward at the end of it then it's time to move on to something else.

The only conscience-pricking thing I sometimes have at the back of my mind is that my success depends on the 80% losers – hard cheddar for them but then, life's a bitch isn't it?
__________________
We are defined by our past!
sminicooper is online now   Reply With Quote
Thanks! The following members like this post: tomorton
Old Aug 10, 2017, 8:10pm   #16
 
IceMan's Avatar
Joined Jan 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnlightenedJoe View Post
That seems to imply if someone wants to be a successful roulette player, all they have to do is set up a roulette playing business, then their mathematical odds in roulette will increase ?

The point I was wanting to make was about having a business mindset rather than actuall setting up a business. As you have pointed out, the two scenarios are different.

In fact the best way to be a successful roulette player is not set up a business but to study the practices of the casino and see if there are any weaknesses in what they do and then take advantage of the weakness. Same applies in trading.

This I would liken to carrying out market research, finding an advantage over your competitors and identifying and edge or U.P.S.

For instance, in trading, the weakness of the merchants who operate markets is that they depend very heavily on misinformation to hoodwink their customers. So, if you ignore their misinformation such as setting up businesses and other seemingly clever ideas, you would have gained an advantage on them.

I guess I would liken these merchants to a business's competitors. And as you have quite rightly implied. they should generally be ignored, focus on what is within your control, rather than what everyone else is doing
I hope this provides some clarity with regards to the intention of my analogy in my previous post.
IceMan is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Daily trading tip subscriptions? mrmonkeh First Steps 0 Mar 20, 2011 12:12pm
about subscriptions jonboy123 T2W Feedback & Announcements 0 Jan 14, 2010 2:03am
Trader Monthly Magazine - Subscriptions? RichieE Educational Resources 11 Nov 22, 2007 6:56pm
New Product: Futures Magazine (Print and Digital subscriptions) EK1 T2W Feedback & Announcements 0 Aug 16, 2006 3:10pm
Newbie to IB & Market Data Subscriptions bigears Brokerages 13 Apr 7, 2005 12:59am

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)