Advice!

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SybilCut

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Hey, I'm at university and though I want to be a trader, have some concerns:

1)I swing trade, I don't understand why after googling for hours I can't find a prop firm which backs swing traders.Understandably many are in the business for the churn and burn aspect of scalping, but there's got to be some firms out there which back what makes profit, no?

2)I can already trade, and wouldn't need training. I have account statements to prove this.

3)I would go into IB but it's insanely competitive and i'm at a mid-tier uni and haven't had an internship, and from what I hear the traditional prop desks at banks are closing down fast.


So basically I can't find any firm which would just straight up back a swing trader who, with lots of records to prove it, who can trade well already and doesn't need any training.

I may just do a masters and work and trade my spare cash, but that's still peanuts to what I could be making trading a prop account.

Thanks
 
Hi SybilCut,
Have you tried contacting any prop' firms? If you can prove consistent profitability, I'd expect all kinds of people would be falling over themselves to get you to join them. Have a look at this FAQ and the links in post #3:
How Do I get a Job Trading?
Let us know how you get on - good luck!
Tim.
 
SybilCut said:
1)I swing trade, I don't understand why after googling for hours I can't find a prop firm which backs swing traders.Understandably many are in the business for the churn and burn aspect of scalping, but there's got to be some firms out there which back what makes profit, no?
Click to expand...

It's safer when betting on a trader who has a positive expectancy to invest in a trader who takes trades multiple times a day rather than once every few days.

2)I can already trade, and wouldn't need training. I have account statements to prove this.
Click to expand...

la dee daa, you have good attitude. You know what? If you can trade and you don't need training, put your money where your mouth is, put in the time and take 100% of your profits?

3)I would go into IB but it's insanely competitive and i'm at a mid-tier uni and haven't had an internship, and from what I hear the traditional prop desks at banks are closing down fast.
Click to expand...

You don't need to go into an IB. If you want to, then go do some extra-curricular stuff such as being captain of rugby team or something along those lines. Have good grades and get started trying to network your way in. That may not be enough and you might need to do a PhD, but that depends how much you really want it.

So basically I can't find any firm which would just straight up back a swing trader who, with lots of records to prove it, who can trade well already and doesn't need any training.
Click to expand...

You sound kind of arrogant tbh. I don't think they'd be too interested when you word it like that.
 
Masquerade said:
It's safer when betting on a trader who has a positive expectancy to invest in a trader who takes trades multiple times a day rather than once every few days.



la dee daa, you have good attitude. You know what? If you can trade and you don't need training, put your money where your mouth is, put in the time and take 100% of your profits?
Because a prop firm could give me access to a much bigger account size than what i'm trading now. Taking 50% of a 12-tier wedding cake is better than 100% of a cherry bakewell.


You don't need to go into an IB. If you want to, then go do some extra-curricular stuff such as being captain of rugby team or something along those lines. Have good grades and get started trying to network your way in. That may not be enough and you might need to do a PhD, but that depends how much you really want it.



You sound kind of arrogant tbh. I don't think they'd be too interested when you
word it like that.

I worded that wrong; what I mean is that while I might benefit from training, I can make money without it. Also since my style is very personal and discretionary, taking years/thousands of hours to develop, other styles sometimes just don't suit me or I don't gel with them, I'd rather continue to refine and develop my current style.
Click to expand...

mkay
 
timsk said:
Hi SybilCut,
Have you tried contacting any prop' firms? If you can prove consistent profitability, I'd expect all kinds of people would be falling over themselves to get you to join them. Have a look at this FAQ and the links in post #3:
How Do I get a Job Trading?
Let us know how you get on - good luck!
Tim.
Click to expand...

I haven't actually, but judging a lot from what i've read most firms want 'fresh' traders to train them themselves, partly in faith of their methods but i'm sure it's to do with generating commissions too, for example there's a prop firm out there with a heavy focus on teaching spread-trading strategies (STA?) and scaling in and out, which is a broker's wet dream!
 
SybilCut said:
I haven't actually, but judging a lot from what i've read most firms want 'fresh' traders to train them themselves, partly in faith of their methods but i'm sure it's to do with generating commissions too, for example there's a prop firm out there with a heavy focus on teaching spread-trading strategies (STA?) and scaling in and out, which is a broker's wet dream!
Click to expand...
Hi SybilCut.
I hear what you're saying and I'm sure you're correct that there are those whose business model is based on commissions. That said, you know your own stats (hopefully!). So, If a prop' firm funds you to the tune of, say $100k, how many round trips at what - $0.20 cents for them - would you have to do for them to equal or better the profits you'll make trading your swing strategy?

If I were you, I'd send out a bunch of e-mails to the ones you like the look of from the directory linked in the FAQ thread. If you're not sure about any of them - just ask on here. If there are any 'steer clear' stories surrounding them - someone on here is sure to know!
Tim.
 
If you're making money, just organically grow trading from home. How many years have you been trading and with what frequency?
 
Knowing when and where to pull the trigger every time is important whether the market is moving in my favor or against it. It helps me maintain a healthy respect for the power of the market, and keep me from letting my emotions dig me in too deep.
 
money_bucket said:
If you're making money, just organically grow trading from home. How many years have you been trading and with what frequency?
Click to expand...

The profit potential would be much lower given a prop account to the tune of $100k is bigger than what i'm trading with. Been trading for 3 years
 
if you are determined enough you will find a way ......good luck
 
Seriously,go and borrow the most you can. It doesn't matter if you pay 10% interest as you make good profits,you tell us. You will find your methods will not suit many firms who want robots and rely on churn rate.
 
It's their money, not yours, so swinging and accepting event risk may not work with their risk profile which will be developed for operational stability and longevity -not just to post a black bottom line. Also from what I gather, most places don't allow outrights and so they'll remain someone hedged against market shock. How would your swing portfolio cope with a no correlation everything goes down black swan event? Bear in mind that the economic and political situation is still a sh*t sandwich wherever you are on the map.

Love,

Scose
 
scose-no-doubt said:
It's their money, not yours, so swinging and accepting event risk may not work with their risk profile which will be developed for operational stability and longevity -not just to post a black bottom line. Also from what I gather, most places don't allow outrights and so they'll remain someone hedged against market shock. How would your swing portfolio cope with a no correlation everything goes down black swan event? Bear in mind that the economic and political situation is still a sh*t sandwich wherever you are on the map.

Love,

Scose
Click to expand...
Meh, think I'm going to get a real job a swing on the side. Easier and means I can get some travelling done first.
 
I thought futex trade only outrights, and occasionally search forums for successful outright traders to recruit?

Correct though re STA, their training course and setup is purely spreads, the business model works on commissions - they don't care if your making big bucks or just ticking over, volume is key and targets and incentives are based around increasing vol. There's quite a few non spread traders there, but you wld need to know of them to get a chance to trade under them (network), and it wld be separate from STA.

Edit:
And imo a prop firm is unlikely to give you the wedding cake to trade with until you build up your account, so why not just do this yourself. Or as someone else posted borrow some cash off someone and increase your stakes, if your that good/confident.

Or just swing on the side.
 
The pressure in these firms Is vastly different than trading for yourself and you might not like it, so be aware of that before you sign any contracts. Being young, time is your advantage and you could comfortably spend the next 10 years building your own account on your own time. Why choose the pressure and associated stress when you can be your own boss. I chose this route and have never looked back. Something to think about
 
It will be a beautiful day in forex land.. Expect lots of movement today, if the numbers are right, we may even see the big drop. BUT, it can also go the other way. Whatever you do, don´t panic!! If we see the drop, don´t close positions to soon, keep cool and let it run out of steam before close...
 
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