Ooeerr a little bit of politics there

nunrgguy · Apr 30, 2010

Last nights debate on the economy?
Made me just a little

Do these guys really think the British populace is so effing stupid?
Endless repetition of the same points without fully going into any details or answering the question on everyone's mind which is, "Just how bad is it and how much is it going to cost us".
But what do we get from them?
No cuts here, no cuts there, but we will cut taxes for the poorest and

Che che che che CHANGES

OMG what an utter utter utter load of BO**OX

And one thing is for sure, at least one of these clowns and their cronies IS going to get voted in on Thursday.

One estimate has said the cost (can't remember whether it is per household or per head) is actually in the region of £90K

Hahahahahahaha

We're doomed captain, we're doomed

bbmac · Apr 30, 2010

In a way you can't blame the politicians as time over the evidence points to the fact that if you tell the truth the voters penalise you. The ITN tracker poll of those undecideds in Bolton showed this last night again when cuts are mentioned the poll went negative.....Mervyn King also suggesting that whoever wins will be out for a generation after 1term as the cuts will be so unpopular.

Even during the supposed boom years, labour still borrowed, ie couldn't even balance the books in good times saying it was ok to borrow to invest in the current economic cycle etc one of the so called 'golden rules ' that were relaxed as things got tough. Ask your MP how many balanced budgets there have been or even surpluses wince WWII...In the U.s in their history since 1776 there have been something like 2, the last being Clinton...Politicians just keep on spending and adding to the national debt because it gets them re-elected and someone else will have to clear up the mess.

Very depressing, the west seems to be going to hell in a handcart at the meoment as debt catches up on everyone. Is a politician really going to win by saying that for 10-20years your living standards will fall ?...look at Greece they are rioting at the austerity measures but you didn't see them questioning the good times on borrowed money!

nunrgguy · Apr 30, 2010

Well, personally here we have no debt apart from what's left of the mortgage but this thing will still kill us probably. I've been saying for YEARS that it was madness. You only had to look arong a scruffbag town like Chesterfield to see it couldn't last. How many Porsches, Astons and Bentleys?

Thing is, who owns the debt, what backs it? It's all notional paper money anyway. Somthing gone a little bit wrong with the system. Hit the reset button and reboot it. Ye canna change the laws of physics captain.

bbmac · Apr 30, 2010

nunrgguy said:
Thing is, who owns the debt, what backs it? It's all notional paper money anyway. Somthing gone a little bit wrong with the system. Hit the reset button a reboot it. Ye canna change the laws of physics captain.

The country owns the debt and what backs it is our historical ability to repay it, Ie a promise to repay, like it says on the banknotes, I promnise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of...etc. Wish we could hit the reset button, I wonder if anyone has even considered sovereign default as a strategy?

Black Swan · Apr 30, 2010

nunrgguy said:
Do these guys really think the British populace is so effing stupid?

We're doomed captain, we're doomed

In answer to the first point yes, and in answer to the second the global fiat money supply (as we know it) created by fractional reserve banking could be reaching its end of days. The event horizon we witnessed in late 2008 has not been *healed* by Tarp/s or the UK version including Q.E.

The UK has a public sector pension commitment of £1 trillion, the total underpinning of the banking system post crisis cost the same. £200billion was created with Q.E., we have national debts of £850 billion and an over draft (deficit) of £180bl. Roughly £100K + has to be levied as a tax on each UK household in order to restore the credibility of the money supply and that cannot happen. It's not just political suicide the simple sums just don't *work*. Even at 5K a year for 20 years it would be crippling, but unless this is addressed sterling will collapse initially by another 30% (IMHO). But given that other currencies will devalue were it (the money supply) is headed is anyone's guess..

Answers? Honestly I don't think there are any, arguably the greatest fiscal and monetarist minds on the planet had one answer during the crisis; increase the money supply exponentially, the problem was looked upon as the only solution. Now we have the greater problem (that will/could dwarf the banking crisis) of out of control sovereign debt caused by the exponential creation of the money supply by the US/UK/EU ...

IMHO we've avoided two huge recessions in the past decade by kicking the problems into the long grass. Politicians have been so morally (and finanically corrupt) that they've been unwilling to restore balance by using the obvious and brutal method of interest rate hikes "Recession? Not on my watch.." which has led us down this blind ally with a brick wall covered in anti climb paint...

Just keep on taking as much money out of this charade as possible, convert it into the safest currency you can, after all no lesser figure than Bernanke recenty said money was just an illusion...wtf...:-0

Black Swan · Apr 30, 2010

bbmac said:
The country owns the debt and what backs it is our historical ability to repay it, Ie a promise to repay, like it says on the banknotes, I promnise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of...etc. Wish we could hit the reset button, I wonder if anyone has even considered sovereign default as a strategy?

Good call, there are many, many theories on the interweb suggesting this is the only solution; one global currency/citizen-credit. IMHO we are witnessing an end of empires in slow motion, not going to be pretty.

nunrgguy · Apr 30, 2010

Black Swan said:
Good call, there are many, many theories on the interweb suggesting this is the only solution; one global currency/citizen-credit. IMHO we are witnessing an end of empires in slow motion, not going to be pretty.

Long: gold, land, seed, guns, ammo
Short: everything else

Black Swan · Apr 30, 2010

nunrgguy said:
Long: gold, land, seed, guns, ammo
Short: everything else

Yep, be a farmer and bury the gold deep...

cr6196 · Apr 30, 2010

Black Swan said:
In answer to the first point yes, and in answer to the second the global fiat money supply (as we know it) created by fractional reserve banking could be reaching its end of days. The event horizon we witnessed in late 2008 has not been *healed* by Tarp/s or the UK version including Q.E.

The UK has a public sector pension commitment of £1 trillion, the total underpinning of the banking system post crisis cost the same. £200billion was created with Q.E., we have national debts of £850 billion and an over draft (deficit) of £180bl. Roughly £100K + has to be levied as a tax on each UK household in order to restore the credibility of the money supply and that cannot happen. It's not just political suicide the simple sums just don't *work*. Even at 5K a year for 20 years it would be crippling, but unless this is addressed sterling will collapse initially by another 30% (IMHO). But given that other currencies will devalue were it (the money supply) is headed is anyone's guess..

Answers? Honestly I don't think there are any, arguably the greatest fiscal and monetarist minds on the planet had one answer during the crisis; increase the money supply exponentially, the problem was looked upon as the only solution. Now we have the greater problem (that will/could dwarf the banking crisis) of out of control sovereign debt caused by the exponential creation of the money supply by the US/UK/EU ...

IMHO we've avoided two huge recessions in the past decade by kicking the problems into the long grass. Politicians have been so morally (and finanically corrupt) that they've been unwilling to restore balance by using the obvious and brutal method of interest rate hikes "Recession? Not on my watch.." which has led us down this blind ally with a brick wall covered in anti climb paint...

Just keep on taking as much money out of this charade as possible, convert it into the safest currency you can, after all no lesser figure than Bernanke recenty said money was just an illusion...wtf...:-0

could you explain a bit more about this as im not sure i understand your reasoning...are you saying inflation will happen? why will it happen? whats the problem with inflation? does increasing the money supply always lead to inflation?

is your view the mainstream view?

meanreversion · Apr 30, 2010

What's the euphemism for default, restructuring? Greek (and other country) bondholders need to start taking haircuts. Government needs to start breaking promises, there's no other way out.

dealer911 · Apr 30, 2010

meanreversion said:
What's the euphemism for default, restructuring? Greek (and other country) bondholders need to start taking haircuts. Government needs to start breaking promises, there's no other way out.

I wonder if the Abbey will accept me "restructuring" my mortgage.?!

meanreversion · Apr 30, 2010

I'm with the Halifax. Maybe that nice man Howard would like to take a "haircut" on my mortgage. On second thoughts, he's bald isn't he?

maiden22 · Apr 30, 2010

bbmac said:
The country owns the debt and what backs it is our historical ability to repay it,

I think that actually around a third of gilts and linkers are owned by foreign investors.

We might soon be wishing for Palmerston and a few gunboats.

montmorencyt2w · Apr 30, 2010

Is this thread turning into our own little version of Zerohedge?

Ooeerr a little bit of politics there

nunrgguy

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bbmac

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nunrgguy

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bbmac

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Black Swan

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nunrgguy

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cr6196

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meanreversion

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maiden22

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