Wall Street = Casino. Minus Sum Game.

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Old Jan 13, 2010, 11:47pm   #43
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Re: Wall Street = Casino. Minus Sum Game.

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Out of 60 million people in the U K , only a few thousand get caught and go to prison.The rest are free and the same proportion is free on Wall street.
So you think that there are 60 Million fraudsters in the UK ?


Paul
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Old Jan 13, 2010, 11:53pm   #44
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Re: Wall Street = Casino. Minus Sum Game.

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Originally Posted by Trader333 View Post
So you think that there are 60 Million fraudsters in the UK ?


Paul
No. some of us have committed crimes in our lifetimes.We are not all that innocent.

All those Wall street and RBS bankers would have got the Gallows in another country.They are all free.
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Old Jan 14, 2010, 12:31am   #45
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Re: Wall Street = Casino. Minus Sum Game.

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Originally Posted by DionysusToast View Post
How would some guy using pure technicals have intepreted this move ? As a strong open ? A breakout of previous resistance ? A trend continuation ?
Why have you switched from all individual investors to individual investors using pure TA and concerned only with one trade? Personally I couldn't care less what happens with one trade.
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Old Jan 14, 2010, 12:38am   #46
 
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Re: Wall Street = Casino. Minus Sum Game.

DionysusToast started this thread Xeno - I was asked about trading style.

I used an example from this morning to highlight the difference in perspective between someone that just looks at charts and someone that looks at what the market participants are doing.In this case, there wasn't a trade.

It was a relpy to Trader333 & Timsks comments only.
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Old Jan 14, 2010, 9:39am   #47
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Re: Wall Street = Casino. Minus Sum Game.

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Originally Posted by DionysusToast View Post
Good post. Let me take this point by point.

2 - The house cannot be beaten. The financial industry ALWAYS makes money. It is impossible for all investors to make more money than is put in. Now - can a single individual make some money - yes - but not by following the methods put forward by the financial industry.
Now you're changing the story. It's not a casino and the house can be beaten consistently by an individual investor. In a casino, it can't (except for special practices like card counting etc)

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3 - Governments as a source of revenue is a poor example. This is simply tax payer’s money being filtered into wall St. Wall St always gains on these transactions.
This is a bit silly. Clearly everyone on the planet is ultimately responsible for the world's finances, but that's widening the debate too far. Besides, you said the investing public was the only source, which is clearly a much more restricted group than the public responsible for governments or corporations.

The sum game entirely depends on where you draw the line. Global finance is a positive sum game if global gdp went up. Draw it at the trading entity like I did, and it can be a positive sum game as I showed. Draw it at the three market participants involved in a trade, and it's exactly zero sum. Draw it at the two, and it's always negative, draw at at the successful retail trader, and it's positive.

Your basic point is fine - that wall street makes a lot of money from the investing public, and they are more likely to make the money in the average trade, and they push the trading tools they want individuals to use. But it simply isn't like a casino, since an individual can beat the house.

If you're saying the investing public as a whole can't beat the house, well, wow, that's not really news is it.
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Old Jan 14, 2010, 1:38pm   #48
 
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Re: Wall Street = Casino. Minus Sum Game.

DionysusToast started this thread
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Originally Posted by Xeno View Post
Now you're changing the story. It's not a casino and the house can be beaten consistently by an individual investor. In a casino, it can't (except for special practices like card counting etc)
The story is not changing. Wall St always wins. That's the story right there & it wins billions of dollars which come directly from the investing public. It has more money that it knows what to do with.

It has an edge - the house edge.


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Originally Posted by Xeno View Post
This is a bit silly. Clearly everyone on the planet is ultimately responsible for the world's finances, but that's widening the debate too far. Besides, you said the investing public was the only source, which is clearly a much more restricted group than the public responsible for governments or corporations.

The sum game entirely depends on where you draw the line. Global finance is a positive sum game if global gdp went up. Draw it at the trading entity like I did, and it can be a positive sum game as I showed. Draw it at the three market participants involved in a trade, and it's exactly zero sum. Draw it at the two, and it's always negative, draw at at the successful retail trader, and it's positive.

Your basic point is fine - that wall street makes a lot of money from the investing public, and they are more likely to make the money in the average trade, and they push the trading tools they want individuals to use. But it simply isn't like a casino, since an individual can beat the house.

If you're saying the investing public as a whole can't beat the house, well, wow, that's not really news is it.
Actually - Wall St, web sites, vendors, book sellers all want you to think you can beat the house. The people telling you this failed to beat the house themselves.

The very place you go to learn how to beat the house is the place you will find people that failed to do it.
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I cannot see., however why we should expect to find a "system" which will work in the stock market; surely the possibilities of profits for the student justify the time and effort required to learn market interpretation.

Humphrey B Neill - 1931
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Old Jan 14, 2010, 2:02pm   #49
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Re: Wall Street = Casino. Minus Sum Game.

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Originally Posted by DionysusToast View Post
Actually - Wall St, web sites, vendors, book sellers all want you to think you can beat the house. The people telling you this failed to beat the house themselves.

The very place you go to learn how to beat the house is the place you will find people that failed to do it.
DT,
. . . if all these 'conventional' places are next to useless and little more than a trap to lure (wannabe) traders into a holding pen for the 'house' to then pick off at their leisure, what are the alternatives? Where do you suggest people go - and what should they do - to avoid this inevitable fate of being parted from their money? What would you recommend to an aspiring retail trader?
Tim
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