I'm Nearly in THAT 90% Category

This is a discussion on I'm Nearly in THAT 90% Category within the General Trading Chat forums, part of the T2W Archive category; Originally Posted by Masquerade Ok, enter trades with a 5 pip stop loss, 100 pip TP order and don't move ...

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Old Oct 30, 2009, 5:18pm   #64
 
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Originally Posted by Masquerade View Post
Ok, enter trades with a 5 pip stop loss, 100 pip TP order and don't move your stop. Let me know how that one works out for you.
If you randomly entered a stock; With a stop loss out of the way of historical volatility and a target of X3 - You have a positive expectancy strategy. As its proven (qualified) that in markets, when you eliminate volatility, have direction over the long-term.

Which is similar to what you are saying; apart from 5-pips in retail FX (with a spread and slippage) and volatility is just unrealistic to even consider as a possible strategy

I know that you weren't suggesting it was...
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Old Oct 30, 2009, 6:19pm   #65
 
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sangfroidFX, been there, done that. Don't sweat it, man . It's all part of the learning curve - take it as an expensive lesson. Make sure you're analytical and learn from everything. You'll get there.

You've probably read this all before... so read it again! As mentioned previously, it sounds like you're too emotional which is leading to a lack of discipline... and being risk averse doesn't help (1.5 years demo-trading?). Gotta take risks in this game otherwise you're either an onlooker or a passenger.

Develop your trading strategy (not random 5pip hits) that includes exit strategies, risk management (and use a Stop - don't just 'hope' for a loss to magically turn into a profit!) etc. Test if it's consistently profitable, write the method down step-by-step, review it, live by it.

*Your goal, sangfroidFX, is to follow your rules* - not to sit there and 'make money' (money is a by-product of your successful trading actions (following the rules of a proven winning edge)).

If it's profitable in demo-trading then practice it with tiny amounts of real money... but I think you need to emotionally detach yourself from s ('absolute' amounts with a certain spending power) and think about pips ('relative' scalable value).

Why tiny amounts?... Because your biggest challenge is in changing yourself which holds you back when trading real money, as you already know. Don't risk too much cash until you change your mentality. Your equity curve should ideally grow exponentially but it has to follow your lead.

Emotions: when you feel pessimistic or greedy and are about to take a tiny profit or let a loss run, take a deep breath and think why you are about to do it. Is it because of your emotions or because of your rules? (At this stage your rules will be more reliable at trading than you are - they're a distillation of accumulated knowledge). Identify your emotions and refer to a summary of your trading rules... The price has moved X pips from your entry, what do the rules tell you to do...? NOW BLOODY DO IT! Whether you like it or not. Accept those wins and losses, learn from them and move on.

Here's another real-world example, if you find yourself with an extreme emotional reaction to something, e.g. you're working in the hotel and someone hasn't tipped you for taking their bags up (even though they didn't want you to)... Put away that chain-saw, mister! Rationalise what you're feeling and realise what it's making you do. Stop the damaging train of thought. You: 'OK, I know I'm freakin' mad, but I'm not gonna let it turn me into an embarrassing nutter... I'm cool now.' And you're on your way again.

Your objective at this point is to Practice following your rules with real money - think of practicing as cognitive therapy. Compulsive gambling behaviour to take big risks and quick profits is dictated by your frontal cortex, similar to a drug addict or an overeater. You need to change those behaviour patterns by consistently following your rules...

Following your rules = Developing your discipline = Less irrational and emotional = Profits (results) = Proof that you can do it consistently even after losing streaks = Self-confidence and confidence in your Rules (feedback loop) = Increasing risk per trade (gradually building up to, say, 2%).

Patience, son. It'll take time... Then watch your career take off! The power of compounding, baby!...
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Last edited by rogue8; Oct 31, 2009 at 4:18pm.
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Old Oct 31, 2009, 5:41pm   #66
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Orders...

Hi SangfroidFX

There are loads of good points in a lot of these posts, but if it's of help to you, here is my two pennies-worth (with no doubt some repetition...)

Look at higher TFs, H1, H4, less noise and you will give back a smaller % of you profits to your broker.

Keep it simple, use S&R levels, wait for the set-ups to come to you. If nothing looks good, walk away.

Use orders, these have helped me no end in staying emotion-less. Set your SL and TP (or let trade run moving SL along) and walk away. I have never been able to manually close a losing trade without emotion or stress so I always let the SL do it for me.

There's a lot to be said for trading with real money rather than demo, but look out for brokers or SB companies who offer "free" money or very low stakes. e.g. ETX offer 100 when you open an account so risk their money (you can keep any profits) and with Finspreads you can start at just 10p a pip. Don't risk too much until you're happy with what you're doing.

Hope that helps. I wish you all the best, don't make it harder than it needs to be and let us know how you get on.

Julie
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Old Nov 1, 2009, 2:12am   #67
 
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Originally Posted by Black Swan View Post
You're too immature, you're too needy and if you havn't cracked it after 3 years you're not commited enough. Stop bleating, get trading and stop it with this oft repeated dream of; "I'll get successful enough to give up my day job and concentrate on full time trading..." Want to be a successful full time trader? Then start doing it full time, by that I mean 24/7 total immersion until you get it...

* disclaimer; I make no apologies for the harshness of this post...
No apologies necessary. Opinions are just that. Sometimes we need harsh words to make us take a step back and re-evaluate ourselves and in parts I agree with you.

The part I don't agree with however is "start doing it full time, by that I mean 24/7 total immersion..."

I have invested many many hours/days/weeks of my life into studying the market, I need a job at the minute to earn a living to pay the bills. It would be hard to trade forex living on the street with no access to the internet. As for the "commited enough" part, I don't believe you're in a position to question my commitment. This is not something I have stumbled upon last week. I have had absolutely nobody to show me how to trade, I do not personally know any other person who trades any market. I decided not to enter a potentially lucrative career in the law field and took a job working as a Night Porter in a hotel because it gave me the ideal times to trade. How dare you question my commitment. I am not asking for a personal attack on my character, I was asking for advice relating to my trading.

You mention this "oft repeated dream of; "I'll get successful enough to give up my day job and concentrate on full time trading..."" Again, who are you to question my dreams and aspirations. I had once wanted to become a solicitor, if my lecturer at university had come out with this comment I would question his credentials to be imparting advice to ANYONE. "Here we go, another wannabe solicitor". People generally invest in financial markets to make a monetary gain. If a by-product of that means not having to have a day job then so be it.

I get the impression that you are bored by newcomers to this game asking the same questions and and getting stuck in the same areas. I thought that was why this forum existed, so people can seek help from others if need be. If by my seeking help and asking questions has in some way caused you such tedium that you feel the need to insert a roll-eyes emoticon then I ask you not to reply to this thread. I said any advice was appreciated in my OP, however I must emphasise the advice part and not an attack on my character.

Last edited by Sang Froid; Nov 1, 2009 at 8:28am.
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Old Nov 1, 2009, 2:26am   #68
 
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Originally Posted by rogue8 View Post
s

Develop your trading strategy (not random 5pip hits) that includes exit strategies, risk management (and use a Stop - don't just 'hope' for a loss to magically turn into a profit!) etc. Test if it's consistently profitable, write the method down step-by-step, review it, live by it.

*Your goal, sangfroidFX, is to follow your rules* - not to sit there and 'make money' (money is a by-product of your successful trading actions (following the rules of a proven winning edge)).



Patience, son. It'll take time... Then watch your career take off! The power of compounding, baby!...
You have summed up many peoples replies in the space of about four paragraphs and I thank you. You're right, I was focused on the money and this in turn clouded my judgement when making calls. I had no trading plan, well not one of worth anyway and for now I have gone back to demo trading again with the hope of gaining a fresh perspective.

Money is a by-product of trading.... something I shall surely take with me.
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Old Nov 1, 2009, 2:33am   #69
 
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Originally Posted by jel31 View Post
Hi SangfroidFX



Look at higher TFs, H1, H4, less noise and you will give back a smaller % of you profits to your broker.

Keep it simple, use S&R levels, wait for the set-ups to come to you. If nothing looks good, walk away.

Use orders

Hope that helps. I wish you all the best, don't make it harder than it needs to be and let us know how you get on.

Julie
Absolutely! I have since been looking at bringing everything you've said into my trading. This is something I should have been doing a long time ago but as someone else said earlier it's our mistakes that can lead to progress, unfortunately it has been an expensive mistake for me.

All advice helps as it enables me to look at other areas of my trading that I may not have looked at before, and these last few days I have learned more than I ever could've from books. Talking to other people who have gone through the same, made the same mistakes, and done the hard work helps enormously.
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Old Nov 1, 2009, 10:58am   #70
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Originally Posted by sangfroidFX View Post
No apologies necessary. Opinions are just that. Sometimes we need harsh words to make us take a step back and re-evaluate ourselves and in parts I agree with you.
erm...IMHO the dream of eventually and seamlessly moving from paid employment to self employed full time trading is a myth, a myth in part deliberately perpetuated by the industry. There's a paradox; if an employed person was earning 30K at their full time job and 15K tax free spread betting, part time, effortlessly, by just 'lumping one on' in the morning or evening, I'd suggest they just keep on doing what works, why give up the day job? Just compound the strategy...problem is doing it part time/lumping one on will never work (IMHO)...

In relation to the time and the supposed energy, the commitment, the sacrifice etc. part time traders make in order to make it work well that's just part of the gig - of any job, particularly in this contracting job market.

If you'd be on the streets if you gave up your job in order to start trading then you don't have enough cash to trade, simple as, folks who are 2 wage packets from the gutter should concentrate on staying out of that gutter...

I'm not assasinating your character, don't know you, you are v. defensive...you asked for advice I gave it, the fact that it didn't fit into the cosy, polite, framed response you expected is your problem.

So what's the answer; after 3 years of playing around trading only now you're going to 'up' the time frames, put the money second to the 'game', open more practice accounts, go back to basics...? Get to fook...you do not have enough cash, or access to cash to trade...find it, or give it up...hope this helps...
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