Does anyone trade with a partner?

Neoripley · Jul 13, 2009

Hi, I'm not new but haven't posted for about two years! During this time I've been spreadtrading and just learning as much as I can everyday (as I'm sure we all do) .. and I do this continuously. During this time I've considered all kinds of strategies and approaches and have come up with several of my own as well.

The purpose of this post was to ask if any other traders here trade with a partner or whether most trade solo - and what your view is on this?

Anyway, that's it really. Thanks

Paulie_5 · Jul 13, 2009

There's nothing wrong with having a trading buddy to chat broadly about the market, but personally, I'd have an issue with having a trading buddy to make actual trading decisions with. I am a very strong believer in making your own decisions. That way, there is no scapegoat. You make the decision, you win/lose , you only have yourself to reward/ blame. Having a second opinion will only create conflict. All imho.

squall321 · Jul 13, 2009

trading with a partner sounds like a good way to make enemies quickly

Neoripley · Jul 13, 2009

Paulie_5 said:
There's nothing wrong with having a trading buddy to chat broadly about the market, but personally, I'd have an issue with having a trading buddy to make actual trading decisions with. I am a very strong believer in making your own decisions. That way, there is no scapegoat. You make the decision, you win/lose , you only have yourself to reward/ blame. Having a second opinion will only create conflict. All imho.

Hi, thanks for your reply. What I was getting at is not a competitive partner but a hedging partner i.e. someone to 'take the other side of the trade' in case you're wrong and vice versa.

Skill Leverage · Jul 13, 2009

Neoripley said:
Hi, thanks for your reply. What I was getting at is not a competitive partner but a hedging partner i.e. someone to 'take the other side of the trade' in case you're wrong and vice versa.

So what you're suggesting is that you and I sit at our desks, I say 'I'm going long 5 Bunds', at which point you would instantly sell 5 Bunds, in case I'm wrong? That sounds like an awesome proposition for whoever is doing the clearing, but I can't imagine there being much money in it for us. None, in fact. Think about what you're saying for gawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwd's sake

GladiatorX · Jul 13, 2009

Neoripley said:
Hi, thanks for your reply. What I was getting at is not a competitive partner but a hedging partner i.e. someone to 'take the other side of the trade' in case you're wrong and vice versa.

May aswell just not enter then... You'd save money by not paying commisions... Could be a new idea for a strategy - Don't enter, Play Golf = NO -$

Neoripley · Jul 13, 2009

Skill Leverage said:
So what you're suggesting is that you and I sit at our desks, I say 'I'm going long 5 Bunds', at which point you would instantly sell 5 Bunds, in case I'm wrong? That sounds like an awesome proposition for whoever is doing the clearing, but I can't imagine there being much money in it for us. None, in fact. Think about what you're saying for gawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwd's sake

No, no, no, nooooo! I'm saying you go long 5 Bunds and you have a profit target (or some idea) and a stop loss (or some idea). If your long 5 Bund does not work out and the price retraces back to your stop loss level AND IF I HAVE A SUITABLE SELL SIGNAL at that point then I jump in short. You will not worry as much because you know I'll jump in if it's a sell. On the other hand I won't jump in UNLESS/UNTIL it's a sell (which means you may hang on longer as well). Once I'm in with a short you might not even have to use the stop loss for some time anyway, because your loss is 'locked in' (hedged). It's even possible that I could make a quick profit from the short while you are still holding your long before the market reverses again and puts your long in profit. There are many possibilities and scenarios - just back test using a "If then,.." logic. Plausible?

Skill Leverage · Jul 13, 2009

That sounds like a complete and utter nightmare. What if we both want to buy it at the same time? Or if I think that I don't need a stop because you're 'hedging' my position, then you receive a signal to get out? Complete nightmare, wouldn't work. Points for effort though.

Paulie_5 · Jul 13, 2009

Hi, thanks for your reply. What I was getting at is not a competitive partner but a hedging partner i.e. someone to 'take the other side of the trade' in case you're wrong and vice versa.

Are you talking about doing this with corresponding markets perhaps ? (as Skill and Gladiator say, no point in doing it in the same market as they would just cancel out)
So - One trader agrees to only go long at appropriate entry points in one market. The other only goes short in a corresponding market. If each traded outright as best they could in their designated direction .. you may start seeing some positive results... Is this what you mean ?

Neoripley · Jul 13, 2009

Skill Leverage said:
That sounds like a complete and utter nightmare. What if we both want to buy it at the same time? Or if I think that I don't need a stop because you're 'hedging' my position, then you receive a signal to get out? Complete nightmare, wouldn't work. Points for effort though.

Well, no we couldn't both buy. It would have to be agreed who is the buyer and who is the seller for the day/session. Basically, it's one guy's job to buy and the other guy's job to sell (rather than trying to do both yourself). You would have to use a pre-agreed stop e.g. at an agreed support/resistance level (it would have to be done professionally and seriously, no messing around). I mean the partners would have to see eye to eye and share the same trading philosophy and agreed strategy. Of course, you couldn't trade two different strategies and just do what you like - that would be chaotic. No, I mean like seriously dedicated and disciplined teamwork.

Skill Leverage · Jul 13, 2009

You're asking someone to severely hamper their trading abilities, whilst also placing a huge amount of faith in your performance. I appreciate what you're getting at, it's just not feasible in reality.

Neoripley · Jul 13, 2009

Paulie_5 said:
Are you talking about doing this with corresponding markets perhaps ? (as Skill and Gladiator say, no point in doing it in the same market as they would just cancel out)
So - One trader agrees to only go long at appropriate entry points in one market. The other only goes short in a corresponding market. If each traded outright as best they could in their designated direction .. you may start seeing some positive results... Is this what you mean ?

YES! But I also think it would work in the same market (especially with spreadbetting and Futures because the cost of trading is lower). But there's also no real limit on the possibilities - the only limit is man power. There will still be losses but the cost of the losses will be less. Likewise, the profits could be smaller but they could also be greater as both sides could profit i.e. during retracements, different time frames, etc.

Skill Leverage · Jul 13, 2009

Your theoretical profits could not be greater than that of someone trading outright on their own. Yes, you can both be simultaneously 'in profit', or both be in a trade that ends up profitable, but it's impossible for you to both be profiting from the same directional move. There is only downside to this proposition, there is no upside. Paulie's comment about correlating markets was much more interesting imo, but still would be a pain in the tits to implement.

Neoripley · Jul 13, 2009

Skill Leverage said:
You're asking someone to severely hamper their trading abilities, whilst also placing a huge amount of faith in your performance. I appreciate what you're getting at, it's just not feasible in reality.

Maybe so. But you could watch each other's backs as well and be totally transparent and communicate through the trades. Why hamper their trading abilities? No, hamper their losses is really the point. I mean, the market is only going three ways - up, down or sideways, not so? And there's only really four positions: buy, hold, sell or out (flat).

Skill Leverage · Jul 13, 2009

Yes, but you're telling me that I can't buy, I can only sell, or vice-versa; meanwhile if I see a great selling opportunity, I have to put my faith in you having the ability to correctly take advantage of it, whilst still analysing the buy side with a clear head. You'd spend more time worrying about the other person than it would even remotely be worth. Trust me, this idea, in terms of trading the same market, is a stinker.

Skill Leverage · Jul 13, 2009

By doing this you are essentially trading as one person trading outright positions - sometimes you'll be long, sometimes short, sometimes flat. The only difference is that there's two brains making the decisions, and that, when it comes to daytrading, is only going to hamper profits.

Neoripley · Jul 13, 2009

Skill Leverage said:
By doing this you are essentially trading as one person trading outright positions - sometimes you'll be long, sometimes short, sometimes flat. The only difference is that there's two brains making the decisions, and that, when it comes to daytrading, is only going to hamper profits.

Well yeah, I didn't think for a minute that this idea would have universal appeal. Maybe this doesn't appeal to you but I think this is the ONLY way I can be sure of consistent profitability. Maybe your personality, trading style, risk tolerance, etc etc is not suited to this kind of trading. But it suites me in every way i can think of. But I enjoy your views, it's interesting, thanks

Neoripley · Jul 14, 2009

Neoripley said:
Hi, I'm not new but haven't posted for about two years! During this time I've been spreadtrading and just learning as much as I can everyday (as I'm sure we all do) .. and I do this continuously. During this time I've considered all kinds of strategies and approaches and have come up with several of my own as well.

The purpose of this post was to ask if any other traders here trade with a partner or whether most trade solo - and what your view is on this?

Anyway, that's it really. Thanks

>bump<

Paulie_5 · Jul 14, 2009

Neoripley,

I guess nobody has given you the answer you are looking for ...

So to try and help you out further - how about applying to some prop firms/ arcades ?

As I understand, Schneiders trade in 'teams' ... perhaps someone on here who works for them could tell you more.

Neoripley · Jul 14, 2009

Paulie_5 said:
Neoripley,

I guess nobody has given you the answer you are looking for ...

So to try and help you out further - how about applying to some prop firms/ arcades ?

As I understand, Schneiders trade in 'teams' ... perhaps someone on here who works for them could tell you more.

Yeah, thanks for that. Guess you can tell I've been checking in for replies a lot.

But yeah, what's frustrating is that I have a strategy that I know would work if I could trade it with one other person. Don't really want to be sharing this idea (if it really is a good one) or relying on it in a different setting (in case it is a no-goer). Thanks anyways

Does anyone trade with a partner?

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