Limit orders

HaloTrader · Jun 22, 2009

If you have a buy limit at 400 (for example) and you don't get filled - Will you get filled at the next avaliable next or not get filled at all?
The reason i ask is if, according to information i have just found, globex requires traders to use a stop limit (as their stop loss)... Surely if you are not filled at this level then your stop loss will not be filled at all.

Someone please explain to stop this confusion.

Thanks, everyone.

N Rothschild · Jun 22, 2009

dunno where you read that

anley · Jun 23, 2009

If you have a limit bid at 400 abd it trades 1001 times at that level there's never a guarantee that you'll get filled. The only time that you will guarantee get filled is if it trades at 1 tick below 400.

As for stop limits, yes if the market blows through your stop without ever looking back - no fill. Stop limits in my experience are usually only used for entering a position.

GammaJammer · Jun 23, 2009

Maybe Globex are trying to limit the market impact of stops. Seems a tad far fetched though - are you sure that's really the stipulation? After all, exchanges have other circuit breaker type rules in place to cover this kinda thing.....

TheGoose · Jun 23, 2009

anley said:
If you have a limit bid at 400 abd it trades 1001 times at that level there's never a guarantee that you'll get filled. The only time that you will guarantee get filled is if it trades at 1 tick below 400.

As for stop limits, yes if the market blows through your stop without ever looking back - no fill. Stop limits in my experience are usually only used for entering a position.

Sorry, don't agree with the latter sentence. It can also be for closing.

A stop limit is where you place a buy above the market or a sell below the market and in each case you must specify a limit, e.g - The mini Dow now is 8316, if I want to close a short I could place a stop limit - I would enter a stop above the market , i.e 8325 AND THEN also a limit ,i.e 8328. This is the highest price you are willing to pay

If you were buying 100 lots and the Dow spikes, you will probably only get a partial fill (but you will be bidding 8328 for the balance)

Just my take

Goose

HaloTrader · Jun 23, 2009

anley said:
If you have a limit bid at 400 abd it trades 1001 times at that level there's never a guarantee that you'll get filled. The only time that you will guarantee get filled is if it trades at 1 tick below 400.

As for stop limits, yes if the market blows through your stop without ever looking back - no fill. Stop limits in my experience are usually only used for entering a position.

Right okay interesting... Is my understanding here correct?

Limit orders can be used to buy the bid or sell the ask.However sometimes you will not be filled and miss the position.
Stop market orders can be used as guaranteed stop losses (Guaranteed in the sense that you will exit the position when possible) and used for both entries above current price for longs (And vice-versa) as well as a stop-loss to exit positions.
Market orders enter @ the current market, as quick as possible. Get priorty fills over limit orders and are executed for longs at the 'offer' and short at the 'bid'

Stop market orders are simply orders to execute a market order at a specific level.

Thanks

HaloTrader · Jun 23, 2009

GammaJammer said:
Maybe Globex are trying to limit the market impact of stops. Seems a tad far fetched though - are you sure that's really the stipulation? After all, exchanges have other circuit breaker type rules in place to cover this kinda thing.....

NinjaTrader -
In the properties menu under the option 'Use stop market for stop loss orders'
'Strategies will submit stop market order for stop loss otherwise a stop limit is used. This property is ignored for Ecbot/Eurex/FX where stop market is used and Globex where stop limit is used'

Just a bit confused with that personally.

Skill Leverage · Jun 23, 2009

Starting to trade without knowing what different orders are available to you in your market...the odds on you blowing up shorten further...

GammaJammer · Jun 23, 2009

HaloTrader said:
NinjaTrader -
In the properties menu under the option 'Use stop market for stop loss orders'
'Strategies will submit stop market order for stop loss otherwise a stop limit is used. This property is ignored for Ecbot/Eurex/FX where stop market is used and Globex where stop limit is used'

Just a bit confused with that personally.

I don't think what you typed there is iecessarily the same thing as saying that Globex themselves have mandated that it be done this way.

Could it not either be a Ninja specific thing or maybe that Globex supports different types of messaging format and would in theory have no issue with people using stop market orders it just cant read the file from Ninja or something.

Just a thought...

Skill Leverage · Jun 23, 2009

GammaJammer said:
I don't think what you typed there is iecessarily the same thing as saying that Globex themselves have mandated that it be done this way.

Could it not either be a Ninja specific thing or maybe that Globex supports different types of messaging format and would in theory have no issue with people using stop market orders it just cant read the file from Ninja or something.

Just a thought...

Agreed; 'option' and 'requirement' are two different things

anley · Jun 23, 2009

TheGoose said:
Sorry, don't agree with the latter sentence. It can also be for closing.

A stop limit is where you place a buy above the market or a sell below the market and in each case you must specify a limit, e.g - The mini Dow now is 8316, if I want to close a short I could place a stop limit - I would enter a stop above the market , i.e 8325 AND THEN also a limit ,i.e 8328. This is the highest price you are willing to pay

If you were buying 100 lots and the Dow spikes, you will probably only get a partial fill (but you will be bidding 8328 for the balance)
Goose

Of course limit stops can be used for closing as well but like I said in my experience they're used mainly for entering positions.

anley · Jun 23, 2009

And I'm talking about stop limits at the stop price like selling 10 FTSE at 4100 stop limit. Not selling 10 FTSE at 4100 stop limit 4090.

TheGoose · Jun 23, 2009

Anley,
In your example, would that not just be called a stop?
The term 'limit' = at that price or better than.
In your example what would happen if the market was above 4100? surely you would just be filled at the current market, i.e just a limit or market order.

Working at a Spreadbetting firm it is interesting how you have to adapt to different client terminology but even pro's I have spoken to seem all over the place.

Limit orders

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