Realistically, what are my chances?

Shakone

Shakone

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I'm 30 years old, I have a PhD from a good university, a first class degree in the same university (quantitative subject). Not Oxford, Cambridge or Imperial unfortunately, but nevertheless a good university. And I would love to get a job in trading. I've been trading for many months now on my own account and although I have a long way to go to be at the heights of Trader_Dante, Wasp and others, I have learned some good foundations and feel I am turning the corner into mild profitability (nothing stunning but consistent). I don't have enough money to be able to just trade for myself and pay the bills, so this is not an option for me at the moment. I would like to send my CV out there (and plan to), but I'm worried that (especially in the current job climate) people will consider me too old at 30.

Realistically what are my chances? And what is the best avenue for me to go down? In a way I'm too old to fit into the normal graduate schemes and internships (although personally I would be happy to do this), but I don't really have the experience to be considered as an 'experienced hire'. I wondered also if, although I'm old for starting a standard trading position, perhaps my PhD would give me an opportunity to enter into option trading positions or exotics positions.

I would especially appreciate the answers from those in banks, hedge funds and prop firms. Many thanks for your time.
 
My only experience is banks, and I'm afraid I don't think you'll have much luck starting at 30.

I'd suggest you keep at it, keep the day job, and if you really are consistent, then you'll have no problem soon accumulating enough to trade for yourself, and if you don't, then you probably wouldn't make it at a job anyway.

Same old same old, learn, keep at it, you'll get there.
 
Shakone said:
I'm 30 years old, I have a PhD from a good university, a first class degree in the same university (quantitative subject). Not Oxford, Cambridge or Imperial unfortunately, but nevertheless a good university. And I would love to get a job in trading. I've been trading for many months now on my own account and although I have a long way to go to be at the heights of Trader_Dante, Wasp and others, I have learned some good foundations and feel I am turning the corner into mild profitability (nothing stunning but consistent). I don't have enough money to be able to just trade for myself and pay the bills, so this is not an option for me at the moment. I would like to send my CV out there (and plan to), but I'm worried that (especially in the current job climate) people will consider me too old at 30.

Realistically what are my chances? And what is the best avenue for me to go down? In a way I'm too old to fit into the normal graduate schemes and internships (although personally I would be happy to do this), but I don't really have the experience to be considered as an 'experienced hire'. I wondered also if, although I'm old for starting a standard trading position, perhaps my PhD would give me an opportunity to enter into option trading positions or exotics positions.

I would especially appreciate the answers from those in banks, hedge funds and prop firms. Many thanks for your time.
Click to expand...



AMAZING......... !! - ud get a job ANYWHERE matey............. !!


try Jane Street - (janestreet.com) :idea:
 
If you can make 10% a month.
And have £5,000 capital.

Do that for 3 years and you'll be ****ing loaded with compounding.
 
Thanks for your responses. The quantitative subject is mathematics, arabianights, but specialising in financial mathematics for my PhD. I know option theory, I know stochastics (not the indicator, although I know that too) and probability theory. I know that there exists the possibility to be a quant for me, but this is mainly computer programming, and I love trading, not programming in C++ all day. I did a 2 month summer internship in a quantitative research group, but that was too many years ago to help me now.

Seems like most in this thread think I have no chance.

What about options trading which, although it doesn't necessitate a knowledge of the theory, the knowledge I have might put me at an advantage? I'm just looking for a way in really and a place to learn.

HaloTrader, even at 10% a month compounding that will only give me a bit over 15k at end of year 1 assuming you take nothing out of the account. I'm getting paid more than twice that currently, and there is no way I could live from 15k. Of course I will persist with my trading anyway, but to be able to live from it alone, would require a large account which I don't have yet. And it is also a risk in other ways. I'm employed now, but to stop working and just trade is a huge risk because suppose you make less than the 10% a month, and you can't afford living costs, then you need a job, but your CV will say that you haven't been employed for the past 1-3 years.

I'm pretty determined, and although yes I am 30, I learn very fast and don't believe that a 22 year old graduate is necessarily going to be more profitable than me or is going to learn at a faster rate.

So although most in this thread think I have no hope :), lets assume for a second that I want to persist anyway, and am willing to start at the bottom. What would you advise me to do? Apply for internships? Go through the milk round as a graduate? All comments welcome (and thanks theroguetrader, do you know this company well?).
 
I think you have a very decent chance at any of the options market making firms and would be a shoe in for prop, fwiw
 
My 2 cents

Shakone said:
Thanks for your responses. The quantitative subject is mathematics, arabianights, but specialising in financial mathematics for my PhD. I know option theory, I know stochastics (not the indicator, although I know that too) and probability theory. I know that there exists the possibility to be a quant for me, but this is mainly computer programming, and I love trading, not programming in C++ all day. I did a 2 month summer internship in a quantitative research group, but that was too many years ago to help me now.

Seems like most in this thread think I have no chance.

What about options trading which, although it doesn't necessitate a knowledge of the theory, the knowledge I have might put me at an advantage? I'm just looking for a way in really and a place to learn.

HaloTrader, even at 10% a month compounding that will only give me a bit over 15k at end of year 1 assuming you take nothing out of the account. I'm getting paid more than twice that currently, and there is no way I could live from 15k. Of course I will persist with my trading anyway, but to be able to live from it alone, would require a large account which I don't have yet. And it is also a risk in other ways. I'm employed now, but to stop working and just trade is a huge risk because suppose you make less than the 10% a month, and you can't afford living costs, then you need a job, but your CV will say that you haven't been employed for the past 1-3 years.

I'm pretty determined, and although yes I am 30, I learn very fast and don't believe that a 22 year old graduate is necessarily going to be more profitable than me or is going to learn at a faster rate.

So although most in this thread think I have no hope :), lets assume for a second that I want to persist anyway, and am willing to start at the bottom. What would you advise me to do? Apply for internships? Go through the milk round as a graduate? All comments welcome (and thanks theroguetrader, do you know this company well?).
Click to expand...

Shakone, how have you been finding the time to trade so far? Do you have a large enough disposable income so that you can afford to deposit a portion into your trading account each month? If you are profitable, consistent and can afford to subsidize your trading capital each month then it will be only a few years before you can trade full time on your own account. Unless you absolutely hate your job or think you are going to be made redundant, your current situation isn't too bad.
 
It is not difficult to get a job the best thing I would suggest is that you do at least first stage of the securities institute diploma to demonstrate commitment and an understanding of finance - at least then you have something to talk about in the interview. I know of a few places you can directly apply to and go onto trading from there on after a few years a couple of my friends have managed to do thi. If you dont have experience but a Phd from a GOOD university then pm me and I will give you some company names your can directly apply to.........ps I will want a 10% cut of the first million you make and 20% thereafter ?
 
Just one other thing (didn't read your earlier response) is unlikely you can go straight to trading you'll have to be in quants for a few years, but seems you dont want to do that.
 
On my e-travels I've seen algorthimic analyst positions that you'd be ticking every box for and they're starting at 100k a year. Thats no money to be turning your nose up at. If I was in your position mate I'd take whatever exposure to the industry I could get and save capital from my ridiculous salary to trade with. You're gonna be picking up tricks of the trade once in there. Plus those positions are asking for PhDs so they wont be expecting anyone too young.
 
Shakone said:
I'm 30 years old, I have a PhD from a good university, a first class degree in the same university (quantitative subject). Not Oxford, Cambridge or Imperial unfortunately, but nevertheless a good university. And I would love to get a job in trading. I've been trading for many months now on my own account and although I have a long way to go to be at the heights of Trader_Dante, Wasp and others, I have learned some good foundations and feel I am turning the corner into mild profitability (nothing stunning but consistent). I don't have enough money to be able to just trade for myself and pay the bills, so this is not an option for me at the moment. I would like to send my CV out there (and plan to), but I'm worried that (especially in the current job climate) people will consider me too old at 30.

Realistically what are my chances? And what is the best avenue for me to go down? In a way I'm too old to fit into the normal graduate schemes and internships (although personally I would be happy to do this), but I don't really have the experience to be considered as an 'experienced hire'. I wondered also if, although I'm old for starting a standard trading position, perhaps my PhD would give me an opportunity to enter into option trading positions or exotics positions.

I would especially appreciate the answers from those in banks, hedge funds and prop firms. Many thanks for your time.
Click to expand...



I don't even have a degree, and i' have managed to gain interviews at prop firms. Just write a decent cover letter. Pm me if you want the templeate that got me interviews at Kyte Group.
 
ffsear said:
I don't even have a degree, and i' have managed to gain interviews at prop firms. Just write a decent cover letter. Pm me if you want the templeate that got me interviews at Kyte Group.
Click to expand...

not sure 'prop firm' is what he's after, have you guys any concept of just how many .v experienced quality employees have been shown the door in the city over the past six months?
 
ffsear said:
I don't even have a degree, and i' have managed to gain interviews at prop firms. Just write a decent cover letter. Pm me if you want the templeate that got me interviews at Kyte Group.
Click to expand...

Is that Kyte the BROKER?
 
Shakone said:
I'm 30 years old, I have a PhD from a good university, a first class degree in the same university (quantitative subject). Not Oxford, Cambridge or Imperial unfortunately, but nevertheless a good university. And I would love to get a job in trading. I've been trading for many months now on my own account and although I have a long way to go to be at the heights of Trader_Dante, Wasp and others, I have learned some good foundations and feel I am turning the corner into mild profitability (nothing stunning but consistent). I don't have enough money to be able to just trade for myself and pay the bills, so this is not an option for me at the moment. I would like to send my CV out there (and plan to), but I'm worried that (especially in the current job climate) people will consider me too old at 30.

Realistically what are my chances? And what is the best avenue for me to go down? In a way I'm too old to fit into the normal graduate schemes and internships (although personally I would be happy to do this), but I don't really have the experience to be considered as an 'experienced hire'. I wondered also if, although I'm old for starting a standard trading position, perhaps my PhD would give me an opportunity to enter into option trading positions or exotics positions.

I would especially appreciate the answers from those in banks, hedge funds and prop firms. Many thanks for your time.
Click to expand...

I started in market at 28 ( after 10 years trading commoditites) and was told I should have started 5 or 10 years earlier.
I would show some sort of commitment to the industry by gaining your registered reps exam ( or whatever the fck the fsa calls it now) then re applying - probably to a prog desk ( all major trading desks have prog desks, not to be confused wtih dwindling prop desk)
 
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