Is it really possible?

This is a discussion on Is it really possible? within the General Trading Chat forums, part of the Reception category; Thanks Spitlink. "To answer how many traders of ten years are more are failing?" It is hard for me to ...

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Old Mar 1, 2009, 6:33pm   #16
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Calinor started this thread Thanks Spitlink. "To answer how many traders of ten years are more are failing?" It is hard for me to know, because you don't see too many of them in banks. Maybe they have blown up by then, or burned out, or are trading for their personal account quietly and you don't see them. I honestly don't know, which is why I posted. To re-enforce some faith if you know what I mean It is good to know that there ARE people like you and others who can make it. I also thought that perhaps very few of those 10-year plus traders actually day-trade and maybe they make their money from swing trading. But it seems there are plenty of profitable day-traders too.

Mr. J-Arthur, the reason I would like to do it, is like you, for the independence it offers and because I find it very interesting. Can't deny I enjoy it. Even the studying charts for hours, and thinking up new systems. It is a great challenge for me, even though I'm not winning that battle yet, and I relish it. But if I know I never would be able to win that game (as is true at the casino unless you count cards), then I would sensibly give it up.
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Old Mar 1, 2009, 7:49pm   #17
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Originally Posted by Calinor View Post
Thanks Spitlink. "To answer how many traders of ten years are more are failing?" It is hard for me to know, because you don't see too many of them in banks. Maybe they have blown up by then, or burned out, or are trading for their personal account quietly and you don't see them. I honestly don't know, which is why I posted. To re-enforce some faith if you know what I mean It is good to know that there ARE people like you and others who can make it. I also thought that perhaps very few of those 10-year plus traders actually day-trade and maybe they make their money from swing trading. But it seems there are plenty of profitable day-traders too.

Mr. J-Arthur, the reason I would like to do it, is like you, for the independence it offers and because I find it very interesting. Can't deny I enjoy it. Even the studying charts for hours, and thinking up new systems. It is a great challenge for me, even though I'm not winning that battle yet, and I relish it. But if I know I never would be able to win that game (as is true at the casino unless you count cards), then I would sensibly give it up.
Don't worry, I did not expect an answer to that question but I think that the gamblers must be separated from the serious traders, in that 90%.

I am not a wealthy trader, by any means, but I enjoy it and it is profitable for me. For what it's worth, I've tried all types of ideas and systems and, in the end, have come back to the simplest methods of all.

Split
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Old Mar 1, 2009, 10:55pm   #18
 
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Which are?
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Do or do not, there is no try!
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Old Mar 1, 2009, 11:19pm   #19
 
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Originally Posted by donaldduke View Post
Its good to see that you are realistic is in your expecations.

I have averaged much more than 50% over the last four years. My systems are profitable about 80% of months.

As for teaching you, there really is no incentive for me to do that.But nearly everything i know about trading can be learnt from books. The rest you must learn yourself by actually trading and losing real money.

I am prepared to trade systems that only win 40% of the time, i am prepared to have 10 losing trades in a row. Sometimes (but thankfully not often) i only get 2 winning tades out of 20.
Most traders are not prepared to trade that way and are not prepared to take 30%+ drawdown like i am prepared to do. Most people lose discipline after 3 losing trades.

Im not saying this is the only way to trade. Some people claim to be profitable with systems than win over 60% of the time, even 80 or 90% of the time. I have never been able to develop such day trading systems (atleast not ones that remain robust for long periods) but perhaps they do exist.

Anyway a high win rate is not required to make money as a trader as i am sure you know already.

People fear losing money. My biggest fear is missing a valid trade. I also have a level of comitment to trading that most people would not be able to match.
If I weren't trading for some time already and couldn't do math, I would be sure now that you will be topping the Forbes 500 soon
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Old Mar 1, 2009, 11:25pm   #20
 
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Originally Posted by Splitlink View Post

I am not a wealthy trader, by any means, but I enjoy it and it is profitable for me. For what it's worth, I've tried all types of ideas and systems and, in the end, have come back to the simplest methods of all.

Split
30 years of trading. I believe, you tested everything. I don't believe, you are not wealthy Maybe we have a different definition of "wealth"
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Old Mar 1, 2009, 11:29pm   #21
 
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To answer the question: Yes, it is possible. Just put a little bit of effort into it
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Old Mar 2, 2009, 12:51am   #22
 
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Originally Posted by DaxDestroyer View Post
If I weren't trading for some time already and couldn't do math, I would be sure now that you will be topping the Forbes 500 soon
You cant keep on making 100% for long with a day trading system so not much chance of joining the billionaire league as a day trader.

At some point you starting to run out of liquidity and you get increased slippage.

Then it becomes a constant $ dollar return with diminishing % returns.

If you start with 1m and make 100% a year until you reach 10million a year it goes something like:

year0: 1m
year1: 2m (100%)
year2: 4m (100%)
year3: 8m (100%)
year4: 16m (100%)
year5: 26m (62%)
year6: 36m (38%)
year7: 46m (27%)
year8: 56m (22%)
year9: 66m (18%)
...

This is just an illustration, you might hit a wall way before 10 million or perhaps after, it depends on your system.
Liquidity issues is why a small trader can make 100% a year until they get quite rich, but a hedge fund with 100s of millions under management struggles to make 20% a year. They cannot trade the 'easy' systems we trade.
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Old Mar 2, 2009, 6:09am   #23
 
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Originally Posted by donaldduke View Post
You cant keep on making 100% for long with a day trading system so not much chance of joining the billionaire league as a day trader.

At some point you starting to run out of liquidity and you get increased slippage.

Then it becomes a constant $ dollar return with diminishing % returns.

If you start with 1m and make 100% a year until you reach 10million a year it goes something like:

year0: 1m
year1: 2m (100%)
year2: 4m (100%)
year3: 8m (100%)
year4: 16m (100%)
year5: 26m (62%)
year6: 36m (38%)
year7: 46m (27%)
year8: 56m (22%)
year9: 66m (18%)
...

This is just an illustration, you might hit a wall way before 10 million or perhaps after, it depends on your system.
Liquidity issues is why a small trader can make 100% a year until they get quite rich, but a hedge fund with 100s of millions under management struggles to make 20% a year. They cannot trade the 'easy' systems we trade.
Best of luck Sounds by far better, but still quite challenging. Maybe I am only not good enough
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Old Mar 3, 2009, 3:04pm   #24
 
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There are old traders, and bold traders, but no old, bold traders.
Almost all day traders either get wiped out, or they have to take the money and run.
If you want to consistently make money, it will be (by definition) over the long term. Which means that you must trade conservatively, and be fearful when others are greedy...but be greedy when others are fearful. So to answer your question, yes, you can be successful, but "consistent" and "day-trade" in the same sentence is a contradiction in terms.
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Old Mar 3, 2009, 3:40pm   #25
 
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Originally Posted by Trueblue77 View Post
There are old traders, and bold traders, but no old, bold traders.
Almost all day traders either get wiped out, or they have to take the money and run.
If you want to consistently make money, it will be (by definition) over the long term. Which means that you must trade conservatively, and be fearful when others are greedy...but be greedy when others are fearful. So to answer your question, yes, you can be successful, but "consistent" and "day-trade" in the same sentence is a contradiction in terms.
Hmmmm, we keep getting asked this question under a number of guises, YES, it is possible to make a living living out of day trading, I have been day trading 14 years, 8 full time. I'm neither old or bold or greedy, but have a set plan which sees me trades a maximum of 4 trades a day. Why do people think you cannot make a living out of day trading, perhaps they have blown their accounts or simply cannot day trade. With discipline, a concise, clear set of rules which enable entry, exit and stop loss, its not very difficult to make a comfortable living from day trading. I "work" from 7.30am to 12.30pm each day and then finish trading and am free to do as I wish. If you want to be greedy and get every single point available, then greed will probably get you in the end, however, to target a modest pip count for each day leveraged sensibly with clear cut stop and limit orders, day trading is easy, before I start the day, I already know what my maximum potential loss can be and conversely what my maximum profit can be. Add to that discipline, together with a clearly defined trading plan, which has being rigourously backed tested and statiscally assessed to form a trading plan, you should win. Surely you wouldn't trade without a plan would you??, if your plan says, your set up is wrong, again, you wouldn't trade it. If the results say you have a system that works, your trade per say and record the details of every trade taken, the entry, exit and stop criteria should be match your trading plan on every trade, if not, your not trading as you should, I need to know the outcome of every trade I place so I can record the trade, honestly good or bad and form statistical database of my trading. I can tweak/change or adapt any part of the plan as the statistics identify to ensure the outcome is in my favour. Boringly, say you run a 75% success rate by sticking 100% to a plan, simply maths says you are running a 3:1 winning ratio, conversely if the fugure is the other way around, your system clearly isn't working and you will become one of the statistics if you don't adapt. IMHO, KISS, trading is easy, its the trader who makes it difficult, makes your decisions on trading by yourself, unfortunately I have being around long enough to see traders from these boards come on with yet another "fantastic" set up, only to bring another to the boards a few months later, makes your own decisions, make your own plan, trade your own decisions and don't let anyone tell you you are doing it wrong, you will know yourself by the results whether youe are doing it right or wrong.

I rarely visit these boards these days, I have no need, I'm comfortable with my life as a trader, and I would go as far and say, these forums can be bad for you as a trader, as you perhaps doubt yourself when you read of others "success", be honest with yourself, be disciplined, be patience and if your set up is correct, you to can stop visiting these sites, makes money and a living and indulge your spare time in something away from trading.....Just my thoughts, off to do something more interesting now, non "work" related.
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Old Mar 3, 2009, 3:44pm   #26
 
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Originally Posted by Trueblue77 View Post
There are old traders, and bold traders, but no old, bold traders.
Almost all day traders either get wiped out, or they have to take the money and run.
If you want to consistently make money, it will be (by definition) over the long term. Which means that you must trade conservatively, and be fearful when others are greedy...but be greedy when others are fearful. So to answer your question, yes, you can be successful, but "consistent" and "day-trade" in the same sentence is a contradiction in terms.
Thanks for letting us know
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Old Apr 10, 2009, 4:05am   #27
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yes, if you can visualize it. Everybody knocks daytrading, but the truth is most people don't have the knowledge nor the cajunas to do it. What do you think the guys in the nymex pit do all day. trade in and out of contracts somedays there up huge some days they lose. Eric Boling was in the pits and I can promise you he is a millionaire.
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Old Apr 15, 2009, 12:09pm   #28
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Originally Posted by Calinor View Post
I'm wondering if it is actually possible to consistently make good money Day-trading.
Possibly.

The question should read: "I'm wondering if it is actually possible for me to consistently make good money Day-trading."

I expect you can answer that yourself.

Is it possible to become a World champion F1 driver in 23 years?
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Old Apr 15, 2009, 12:30pm   #29
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Originally Posted by raysor View Post
Possibly.

The question should read: "I'm wondering if it is actually possible for me to consistently make good money Day-trading."

I expect you can answer that yourself.

Is it possible to become a World champion F1 driver in 23 years?
I'm a consistent, good-money day trader and it didn't take anything like 23 years... The problem is you can't just use a strategy, you really need to know whats going on, so it takes a lot of learning, persistance, determination, thoughts of lacking ability. But if you persist you'll make it, some take a month or 6, some take 5-10 years.
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Old Apr 15, 2009, 12:32pm   #30
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The main problem of people who start trading new is that they have a misconception of what day trading is - i saw up the page someone said these guys make a huge amount one day and lose it all the next ... Thats not true, they are just consistant, they trade relatively small amounts of a huge account to definately and unriskly make money. Ultimately the point with day trading is, its not a quick adrenaline rush as you try to gain £1000 today... its about monthly profits.
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