Tight stops and spreadbetters = no-no?

Was looking into a few random strategies (was hoping to start Monday but oh well, maybe next week). Thought I'd start simple with, buy/sell randomly in the morning, tight stop, and let it run till closing. Should be simple, efficient, and dare I say it fun.

As I'm not at the pc all day, I planned to just put in orders in the morning, do whatever it is I do all day, and return to see what happened. Problem is, spread betters don't seem to want to give me any useful sized stops (volatility and all).

I believe futuresbetting might still do any stop you like, so I might apply for an account there.

Any other thoughts on a work around, looking at a few things now, none are looking too good.

put in a decent stop loss and a trailing stop loss done.

Doesn't solve the problem, guess I'll have to do something imaginative.

You are going to lose all of your money, all of it.

by useful stops do you mean 2points or 2000?

Hotch said:

Was looking into a few random strategies (was hoping to start Monday but oh well, maybe next week). Thought I'd start simple with, buy/sell randomly in the morning, tight stop, and let it run till closing. Should be simple, efficient, and dare I say it fun.

As I'm not at the pc all day, I planned to just put in orders in the morning, do whatever it is I do all day, and return to see what happened. Problem is, spread betters don't seem to want to give me any useful sized stops (volatility and all).

I believe futuresbetting might still do any stop you like, so I might apply for an account there.

Any other thoughts on a work around, looking at a few things now, none are looking too good.

Click to expand...

if you have no idea how you want to trade then use a demo account, until you think you can read the market, then when you realise you cant read the market use the demo account some more.

Sure it's a bit of a punt but to be honest it's got as much merit if not more than some of the other strategies discussed on here. Which market were you interested in doing? A good idea would be to look at the daily ATR to get an idea for stop size.

First off I'd check what you do all day, it's quite important to know that, if only for your tax return

Secondly - if I can make one tiny suggestion - don't do the order at the opening. Go in half an hour afterwards.

I ran a strategy for about 6 months on a 30min TF-

*wait for the market to open
*wait for 30 min
*label the high
*label the low
*Trade a break of the high/low if its exceeded more than 10 pts and a candle has closed above below the identified range.
*Stop and reverse or stay in for the day.

I stopped doing it as the returns where minimal, if I remember right I came out ahead about 300 Pts. Also because its a stop and reverse when the mayhem started I wasn't happy with having a 300 pt stop on a day trade.

I done trade anything like this now but maybe you could use some of this?

the dibs method would be good, and at least gives a reason for buying/selling.

Couple of things...

Who said I was after profit? I'm actually not, it's more of an experiment.

Arabian, I was going to wait a bit, there are a few others bits as well, just gave the details needed.

Lots of you have missed the point, but no worries.

Hotch said:

Couple of things...

Who said I was after profit? I'm actually not, it's more of an experiment.

Arabian, I was going to wait a bit, there are a few others bits as well, just gave the details needed.

Lots of you have missed the point, but no worries.

Click to expand...

Well what market and how tight do you want it? I know people using stops of half a tick so what's the prob?

Hotch said:

Couple of things...

Who said I was after profit? I'm actually not, it's more of an experiment.

Click to expand...

Buy yourself a chemistry set. It will be cheaper in the long run and you will learn something as well. What do you hope to gain from 'experimenting' with a random strategy? My guess is that deep down you hope it works and you will be able to avoid doing what is necessary to be profitable. True?

You will lose all of your money.

new_trader said:

Buy yourself a chemistry set. It will be cheaper in the long run and you will learn something as well.

Click to expand...

Funny

new_trader said:

You are going to lose all of your money, all of it.

Click to expand...

From the unqualified position I find myself in as a new kid on the block, I would say that it doesn't matter if your strategy is "random". I think that setting your orders and walking away to do whatever it is you do is a great idea. Just so long as you've done the maths re: risk management and probability etc. I am myself looking into a method that is almost, but not quite random. The edge is with price action and the focus is more on maths than a crystal ball.

I am afraid I cannot answer your question regarding stops, but must comment on this thread. In my short time here, I've noticed that some people seem to take every opportunity to gun people down who dare to put their head above the parapet. Their justification for this is usually superior knowledge and experience, which I do not doubt. However, on one hand they are telling the harsh truth as it is in order to help people shorten their learning curve. Yet the same people will say that you have to learn the hard way.

The net effect of this kind of input is zero. Alas, it is not always so short and sweet as it is above. Usually, it is dressed up in some sort of Ying and Yang double-edged question that in some round-about sort of way should answer your question if you think about it whilst sprinkling a dried whale's pen1s in your green tea!

I don't mean to cause offence, but I think everyone will know where I'm coming from... For the record, I don't neccessarily disagree with the statement, but is it really helpful? We should all know that trading is like life in many ways - totally unpredictable, some will succeed, some will fail, 99.9% of people won't care what happens to us and most importantly, it's everyone for themselves whether we like it or not!

S

new_trader said:

Buy yourself a chemistry set. It will be cheaper in the long run and you will learn something as well. What do you hope to gain from 'experimenting' with a random strategy? My guess is that deep down you hope it works and you will be able to avoid doing what is necessary to be profitable. True?

You will lose all of your money.

Click to expand...

Already got an extensive chemistry set

And Losing all my money would be quite hard as I've got a brain in my head and there's quite a bit of it. I'm not in it for the money as I've already made it.

It's the practicality of mathematics, proving a few common held beliefs wrong etc, it's not about the trading. To tell the truth, I'm a bit bored and it's something which has interested me.

If it were about the money I'd just trade normally, or go ask help from Danarm, or do something more profitable then trading.

I think this is going be harder to explain then that bloody jet.


I shall go and get an account with futuresbetting.

Hotch said:

Already got an extensive chemistry set

And Losing all my money would be quite hard as I've got a brain in my head and there's quite a bit of it. I'm not in it for the money as I've already made it.

It's the practicality of mathematics, proving a few common held beliefs wrong etc, it's not about the trading. To tell the truth, I'm a bit bored and it's something which has interested me.

If it were about the money I'd just trade normally, or go ask help from Danarm, or do something more profitable then trading.

I think this is going be harder to explain then that bloody jet.


I shall go and get an account with futuresbetting.

Click to expand...

Ok, don't try and explain. But you can at least tell us which "common held beliefs" you are trying to prove wrong. Don't try and explain why they are wrong and how you will prove it, just give us the beliefs if you can.

new_trader said:

Ok, don't try and explain. But you can at least tell us which "common held beliefs" you are trying to prove wrong. Don't try and explain why they are wrong and how you will prove it, just give us the beliefs if you can.

Click to expand...

Why do you always sound patronising when you post? Is it intentional?

Rossini said:

Why do you always sound patronising when you post? Is it intentional?

Click to expand...

No, I do my best to try and sound cynical, pessimistic, misanthropic, morose and melancholic...but patronising, no. That is completely unintentional.

new_trader said:

No, I do my best to try and sound cynical, pessimistic, misanthropic, morose and melancholic...but patronising, no. That is completely unintentional.

Click to expand...

lol