95% winning system that all the newbies do teach us

beatt

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I have the following question to experienced traders please.

We all know, that enormous amount of newbie traders do loose their money (often numbered as 95%). But it tells me one thing. They know how to move their portfolio amount in minus direction. And what can happen if you completely reverse the strategy of any newbie? Will you make the money in reverse? I suppose that if I would do completely the contradict buy and sell orders then my portfolio would be in a plus amount.

What does it tell me again? That even if the novice trader was entering his trades logically, at the places considered by many systems as high probability trades like breakouts, trendline bounces, candle patterns etc. he still loose his money. But if I would do the reverse orders in the same places, I would win.
Is my logic totaly wrong now, when I say, that it's completely not about the importance of entry place but about when we exit? Because I will hold the winning trades for a long long time (as reverse of loosing trader holding his loosing positions).

Well, then what about the random entry strategies, that would pick random entry and apply the "reverse-newbie strategy" to it: cut your losses quickly (as the newbie does with gains) and let your profits run really long (uncontroled as the newbie does to his losses again), preferably with adding more into the winning position (as the newbie trader would do with averaging his losses).

I really wonder, if these random entries work and if such a simple system could be long term profitable?

Do we really need any chart at all? Isn't it all about money management and psychology (to stay with our system whatever happens)?

If 95% newbies do loose, doesn't it gives us a 95% stable strategy/system how to make money if we reverse their newbie mistakes? And what's common with all the newbies, the reason why they loose their money: is it that they let their losses grow?
 
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I am heartily recommending this post, although I am heartily NOT recommending kidnapping an inexperienced trader, sitting him in front of a screen and fading all his trades.

Then again....
 
to make that happen you need to do the following :

1.) find a newbie trader, and assume he/she will lose

2.) tell the newbie you will pay him for 'natural losing experiment', its no big deal. just keep trading and tell the newbie its for behavioral study or whatever.. lol

3.) secretly in behind you should ask someone constantly monitor what newbie is doing and trade exactly the opposite. why secretly? because you want to keep the newbie least amount of info possible from 'interfering his/her natural' way of trading.

4.) Profit!? :LOL:
 
You can try the random trade yourself with a demo account. Let us know next Friday.
 
You can try the random trade yourself with a demo account. Let us know next Friday.

lol better still send me 50k i get my kid to trade it - you can hedge against it. Can't lose. Demo accounts no good cant beat the real world.:clap::clap::clap:
 
I think many people already conducted this "random entry" experiment. I only read it mentioned here and there, but still I am don't get it, I don't understand if the whole trading is about money management, or if we really need charts and support & resistance, or indicators, anything to screen for entry point?
 
I think many people already conducted this "random entry" experiment. I only read it mentioned here and there, but still I am don't get it, I don't understand if the whole trading is about money management, or if we really need charts and support & resistance, or indicators, anything to screen for entry point?

Well that kind of depends on your point of view - there is no right or wrong answer. Maybe you believe that the markets are truly a random walk, that past behaviour really has no influence on what the price will do next. Or maybe you believe that you can infer information from the past and use this to predict what might happen in the future. Finally you may subscribe to the view that the markets are driven by human emotion and herding behaviour and this is an area that can be exploited.

Whatever your view, it doesn't really matter because no-one knows the answer for sure. Just be content that if you can find yourself an edge then you're on the right path to profitability
 
adamscj: that seems to me like a very nice answer, thank you ;-)

I just want to add:
I can believe that there is logic (that they are not random) in the charts that could be exploited and used to my advantage by the help of some signals.
But I wonder, if the money management doesn't govern above it all.
Because as I said about the novice traders - we have perfectly tested on many (95% for example) of this novice traders that they are able to loose money consistently. They used various strategies and systems for their entry points. Many logical entry points, I would say entry points with higher probability rates as they are teaching us in many books, but still, these 95% people were able to loose their money.
Can't we just reverse their MM? Or is there something else why they loose, instead of MM?

Hmm, but the random entry strategies would be working nicely, if the MM would be the only cause of their loosing.
 
I have the following question to experienced traders please.

We all know, that enormous amount of newbie traders do loose their money (often numbered as 95%). But it tells me one thing. They know how to move their portfolio amount in minus direction. And what can happen if you completely reverse the strategy of any newbie? Will you make the money in reverse? I suppose that if I would do completely the contradict buy and sell orders then my portfolio would be in a plus amount.

A couple of problems:

Even people who dont have a clue can have long lucky streaks in the market before blowing up, look at spanish89.

The second is the bid/ask spread and commisions. If i lose £50 plus another £10 in commisions and spread, that shows up as -£60 on my account, but your fading trade will only show a profit +£40. Likewise if i make a profit of £50 less £10 commisions and spread, it shows up as a £40 a profit for me but your fading trade shows a loss of £60!!

So for this to work you would need 100s of newbies so they average out to loss making quickly and you need the bid/ask spread working in your favour.

This is effectively the Spread Bet business model of not hedging punter bets for those that they suspect will lose money.

This Spread bet firms also have the advantage of not having the commission and spread problem described above.
 
I have the following question to experienced traders please.

We all know, that enormous amount of newbie traders do loose their money (often numbered as 95%). But it tells me one thing. They know how to move their portfolio amount in minus direction. And what can happen if you completely reverse the strategy of any newbie? Will you make the money in reverse? I suppose that if I would do completely the contradict buy and sell orders then my portfolio would be in a plus amount.

Reversing a losing strategy (and by that I refer to when one buys and sells only) will not automatically create a winning one.

What does it tell me again? That even if the novice trader was entering his trades logically, at the places considered by many systems as high probability trades like breakouts, trendline bounces, candle patterns etc. he still loose his money. But if I would do the reverse orders in the same places, I would win.
Is my logic totaly wrong now, when I say, that it's completely not about the importance of entry place but about when we exit? Because I will hold the winning trades for a long long time (as reverse of loosing trader holding his loosing positions).

IMO Entries become less important and Exits more so, as we extend the trade duration.

Well, then what about the random entry strategies, that would pick random entry and apply the "reverse-newbie strategy" to it: cut your losses quickly (as the newbie does with gains) and let your profits run really long (uncontroled as the newbie does to his losses again), preferably with adding more into the winning position (as the newbie trader would do with averaging his losses).

I really wonder, if these random entries work and if such a simple system could be long term profitable?

Yes !!! But only if the current Mrkt conditions were in sync with the type of strategy being employed.


Do we really need any chart at all? Isn't it all about money management and psychology
Mostly Yes
(to stay with our system whatever happens)?
No.... Not "whatever" happens !!
 
95% winning system = not newbie

however i do have a strategy that keeps winning at least 90% of the time but still use it carefully & never consider myself as pro
 
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Hi Beatt
I have a system that is very successful for me but i do once a day step out of that rigid system and have a bit of fun on the ftse. I normally win easily on it but for everyone who fancies picking up anything between 10 and 40 points most days im going to tell it warts and all. The advanced guys possibly know it but i haven't seen it written anywhere (or maybe they don't). Now then no matter what for the next 18 months we are going to have unstable situations so great for big swings and grabbing lots of points as i am doing. Here is for the newbies to make some money without having to do the opposite of what you were planning to see if it works cos im going to tell you to do both. At 2.30 every day the dow traders really come on stream in the U.S.A the ftse very often goes one way or the other quite significantly. When 2.30 comes look where the 1 minute candle closes. Then place a double trade i use capital spreads, place both a buy and sell signal with entry point 8 pips above or below that close position. Make it a contingent trade its a simple click on the trade confirmed box.so both are linked i.e if one opens the other closes. Put a 15 point stop on each. Take an example yesterday at 2.30 the minute candle closed at 4267.8 i placed both trades and as normal it went rocketing away for a short time. The ftse actually went up where i closed the trade at 4309.0 at 14:50 hrs a cracking 34 points and over 300 quid in the bank for 30 mins work. Try monitoring it over the next few days and see. This tip could make you lots i hope it does for you. remember once in the trade keep an eye on directional movement once it starts loosing power and you see the trade topping or bottoming take it.
Regards
Mr P
 
I'm gonna have a look at that sounds interesting. What is your exit strategy to profit on this particular strategy?

Are you choosing 8points including the spread? If it isn't shouldn't I be looking at entering 5points about the close and 5 points below?

Also, does IG markets provide this facility?

Viks
 
Hi viks

good to talk again and they said i never give anything away anyway we will leave those pathetic few to the other thread. Spread is only 1 point so i put it exactly 8 points including spread. I would try playing a bit over next few days but it seems to go most days.
Mr P
 
Thanks.

Would you say on most occasions at this time you've consistently taken a 20point profit? 15point profit?
 
Thanks.

Would you say on most occasions at this time you've consistently taken a 20point profit? 15point profit?


oh heck viks unlike my trading system which as you know i keep detailed info i havent done it with this but especially for you i just went back on ig chart on 15 min timeframe and was able to get the data, please check for yourself. 9th down 32points, 6th up 64 points, 5th down 47points, 4th up 53 points 3rd down 22 points so as you can see and verify easily yourself in the last 5 trading days it won 218 points. I just looked at my account and these trades and i won £1860 in the last 5 days doing this. As you know from my Make 8K on the FTSE thread i do £10 a point so won 186 points . This is obviously as i cannot exactly determine top of trade but cut when i see it topping or bottoming. Now how many rep points do i get get for this then haha. I have just shown the whole community a way of making absolutely loads. Knighthood will follow.
And i keep raking it in with my system aswell. All's good in trading and my XKR monster shines beautifully outside.
Regards
Mr P
 
Thanks mate I only ask as when it comes I'll be looking to take 20 points from the US Market effects on the FTSE at 2.30.

You should've bought an Astin Martin. Gorgeous car! Put a beautiful sounds system in there and it will sing!

Viks
 
Interesting.

Why the DOW? Why not the NASDAQ at 15.30?

Seems to me if you take any definite point in time and set 2 orders, one to betting up, another betting down, you stand a good chance of being right half of the time. This takes the timing element away from trading and puts it purely in the hands of money management which i guess could help a Newbie by not overloading the mind with everything at once.

G
 
Cos the DOW does this to the ftse very well. If the nasdaq does then do that. Its the opportunity for the newbies i was trying to give. I will try and simplify it now. Please dont confuse people with the 50% comment as thats wrong. You need to re read what i said. In the last 5 days it has worked 100% but in the context you used it it was like it can only go up or down so you win 50% of the time. That is the inaccurate bit and any readers please blank this comment. Ok i need to check the exact steps to place this contingent order . oops just had sell order on ftse on my system bye
 
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