Give Up ?

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Old Dec 2, 2008, 1:38pm   #17
Joined Apr 2008
Abn Amro
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Old Dec 2, 2008, 1:41pm   #18
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Originally Posted by advfntrader View Post
well thats my problem then !

"if at 1st you don't suceed try, try again "
Don't risk another penny until you can answer these questions:

1) Why am I trading? Don't just say "to make money" - that is what everyone says and believe me it is not the reason everyone trades!!

- Are you looking for something exciting to drag you away from a mundane working life?

- Are you looking for something to "legitimately" fulfill a gambling instinct? (the wife may get on your case if she knows you are visiting Ladbrokes but she probably won't if you say you are learning to trade/invest)

- Are you looking to prove a point to someone in some way? I know someone that divorced from his wife because he was constantly involved in the markets and had no time for her and so they drifted apart. He then threw himself even deeper into the markets in order to prove to her that it was all worthwhile - that all along he had been trying to make money to provide for them both.

- Are you looking to prove a point to a friend/family member? Perhaps you have failed at things in your life previously and you are trying to prove that you can succeed at something. That you can be successful. And perhaps trading appeals to you because you can make a huge amount of money very quickly and therefore prove that success in an immediately quantifiable way.

- Are you trading to fund a retirement plan?

- Are you trading because you want to earn a consistent income? Take a set wage home each week?

Your objectives will define your style. There is so much on this for free on the web and its worth while searching for and reading. But briefly: if its either of the first two points you may almost certainly be attracted to the lower TFs and start overtrading in order to fulfill your objective of obtaining excitement. If you are looking to prove a point to someone, you may be on any TF but you will no doubt try to take excessive risk in order to get rich quicker. If you are trading to fund a retirement plan you may find yourself on the daily and weekly TFs looking to take conservative risks that offer a good chance of steady growth. If you are trading to earn a consistent income then you may need to go onto the 1hr or lower in order to make money each and every day.

2) What are your targets?

You should have targets and targets must be rewarded. You must have a goal. Too many people think of targets along the lines of: "my target is to earn millions and be the best trader out there". So what happens when you have earnt £5m and you are the best trader out there? Are you going to retire? What are you going to do? Where do you want to be? What do you want to do with your life and how does trading fit into that?

3) How are you going to achieve your targets?

This is your trading plan. You need at the very basic a RISK MANAGEMENT rule that stops you blowing up. You need ENTRY rules and you need EXIT rules.

Write them DOWN and follow them without fail for 1 month regardless of the results. Don't second guess the system because you lose 3 trades in a row. Keep following until you have taken at least 20 trades and then re-evaluate. Where did those trades go after I came out? What do you notice? Does the system work just as well without stochastics? Are your results from inside bars better than pin bars? Do you always seem to get stopped out at the low or the high? Do the trades always continue on in the same way you were positioned after you came out? Maybe your profits are down but your win/loss ratio is high? All of this tells you important things.

If you can't answer these questions, you are NOT READY FOR THIS.

Mate, trading is such hard work.

There is absolutely no such thing as find something simple, follow it and make money.

You always need to work and improve.

This is one of the hardest jobs in the world. I have seen so many people come in to a professional firm, get access to great training (on fundamentals, technicals and reading the market order flow) get the best equipment with the fastest execution and have Q&A sessions, asking whatever they want with proven traders that have made millions upon millions of pounds. And still there are more and more leaving all the time, joining the ranks of those that are unable to make money.
Lessons from successful traders:

Increasing trader performance:

Advice for getting a job in trading:

Last edited by trader_dante; Dec 2, 2008 at 1:55pm.
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Old Dec 2, 2008, 1:46pm   #19
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Joined Aug 2005
Originally Posted by candles View Post
what dante said about the guy 'leaving the office so not to get spooked out' can be contributed to turning my trading around. Look at my journal. Obviously my stakes are TINY but over the last few months ive turned my £400 account to nearly 2k at 5pence per point. Things started going LOTS better when i got a fulltime job and couldn't be at the screen all day!

Dont give up. But keep stakes small so that the worst case scenario wont hurt too much, until you find something that works for YOU.
And in direct contrast to what candles said but backing it up completely: I used to have an almost 90% hit rate and make excellent money consistently when I was working as a journalist and couldn't stare at the screen all day. (see when I first started writing Making Money Trading for my mindset at that time)

Then I became a professional to follow the big bucks and I hit the worst losing streak I have had in two years. I became a victim of the order flow - second guessing myself on every down tick when I was long, exiting too early when I had a good position and should have been running it, entering on the hourly but checking the 5m, panicking every time the Squawk said "10 seconds until X number..." and so on and so forth.

When I joined this firm I honest to God believe I could have given even the big traders in here a run for their money. Right now I can barely give the trainees a run for their money.

Go up a timeframe, take a position with a careful plan and get away from the screen.

You have to trust me.
Lessons from successful traders:

Increasing trader performance:

Advice for getting a job in trading:

Last edited by trader_dante; Dec 2, 2008 at 1:52pm.
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Old Dec 2, 2008, 1:46pm   #20
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Joined Jul 2001
Very good post Tom. (Can't give you any more reps).

(That was for the post 2 above, but the last one is a good 'un as well.)

"Adapt or die!" Said the Coackroach to the Dinosaur.

Beware of false signals bearing gifts.

"I have seen the enemy...and it is me."

Follow the path of least resistance.
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Old Dec 2, 2008, 1:48pm   #21
Joined Apr 2008
I can't really add to any of the advice given here but I can say I know exactly how you feel. I am currently in my second break from trading, luckily i've only lost £1300 of my own money (4-5k if you include what i've won then lost) but it can seem as though you're fighting a losing battle.

I don't know you from adam but I am certain your problem is the same as mine: lack of discipline. Even with a solid strategy that I had paper traded successfully for months I still deviated away from it and screwed up.

My only advice is take a good step back from trading, don't even think about it for a couple of weeks then come back refreshed and find a direction you want to go in. Sort out a strategy and paper/demo trade it to ensure it works at least in theory and then get back to trading the smallest stakes you can with a set stoploss % on each trade. I am sure you will come good in the end, just the same as i am sure i will.
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Old Dec 2, 2008, 1:52pm   #22
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advfntrader started this thread so heres the thing. if its all about following a system 100% why do automated EA's not work ? perhaps some kind of automated system would suit me better
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Old Dec 2, 2008, 2:01pm   #23
Joined Aug 2008
Originally Posted by advfntrader View Post
I have a problem, I LOVE trading and keep doing it even though I have not made 1 SINGLE PENNY from it. I do win some trades but I eventually lose and have to constantly top up my account.

my question is - do I just keep plodding on and hopefully eventually the penny will drop ? or should I just walk away and stop it once and for all ? I'm beginning to feel its like a gambling habit
Hello Advfntrader,
Chin up mate dont give up, I dont know how long you have been trading, but I can certainly relate to your experience up till now.

I am in my 4th year and only now am I showing some consistency, winning more than losing. What you have said above is part of the learning process. Constantly topping up is your subscription to the school of hard knocks. As long as its controlled, not £1000 a week (perish the thought). Min pos size, tightish stops depending on r/r. Stamp this on your forehead.

50p a pt is ideal for now, you need to pull the trigger often, I dont mean overtrade, just when a set up occurs, not being afraid to take the trade, learning to accept losses is part of the process.

You are much better doing this than paying for expensive seminars, actual trading experience is the only way you are going to crack this game.

Think about this, I paid for my daughters tuition fees at university, which today cost £9000 for a 3 yr course. She has been earning about £16000 pa for the last 2 yrs, looking for a better job, not much of a return for a degree at present.

You are paying for learning something here that could hold the keys to the kingdom (cue Kylie - I should be so lucky ).

You have had some good advise on here, especially about forming a business plan, but it took me 2yrs in the ice hole, to even know what I should use to formulate a plan. Its only by trial and error and binning a few sure fire plans, that you have any idea what a good plan is.

And do you know what, those plans become a hell of a lot shorter as you develop.

Hang in there Bro.
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Old Dec 2, 2008, 2:49pm   #24
Joined Jun 2008
here are two links which i have found to be useful while working on a plan.

WD Gann - How to make back losses on a small amount of capital and keep it

not too sure about ganns 28 rules but some of them do sound gd
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