Put your hand up if you don’t understand.

new_trader · May 18, 2008

Do you remember when the teacher used to say this and no hands went up....until....some brave soul finally cracked and put his/her hand up....soon after that another person would put their hand up....then another....and very soon half the class had their hands up. Nobody wants to admit that they don’t understand, or at least they don’t want to be the first to admit it. So what changes when somebody else puts their hand up first? It’s seems as if it is suddenly OK to admit that you don’t understand because you aren’t the only one, and more often than not, it’s the majority that doesn’t understand either.

0007 · May 18, 2008

new_trader said:
Do you remember when the teacher used to say this and no hands went up....until....some brave soul finally cracked and put his/her hand up....soon after that another person would put their hand up....then another....and very soon half the class had their hands up. Nobody wants to admit that they don’t understand, or at least they don’t want to be the first to admit it. So what changes when somebody else puts their hand up first? It’s seems as if it is suddenly OK to admit that you don’t understand because you aren’t the only one, and more often than not, it’s the majority that doesn’t understand either.

Very true. I've always found it's best to put my hand up when starting - nobody expects the beginner to know much & consequently it's less embarrassing all round. Problem is, longer you leave it the more both you and others assume you know and it can get really difficult to admit you don't know - all about face-saving I suppose.

It's quite a difficult hurdle to over come - just another variant of admitting you're wrong. I used to be in a job where your results were open to all to see, both in execution and in the "washup" afterwards. I found that the only way to avoid being ripped to shreds for my errors was to admit my mistakes up front and avoid BS at all costs. [politician's lesson here?] It was a valuable life-lesson which has served me well in trading. After all, isn't it one of the hardest things to do: admit that your trade is wrong even after all your expertise and experience and above average brainpower decided it was a good trade at open?

grantx · May 18, 2008

NT,

A few years ago I enrolled on a part-time MSc in Mathematical Modelling (short-lived, unfortunately). The class was all male with an age range of late twenties to mid fifties. When a question was asked hands would shoot up (one could almost hear, "me sir, me sir) - from grown men. It was fckin' embarrassing.

Grant.

agmewc1 · May 18, 2008

I dont underatsn anything

rathcoole_exile · May 18, 2008

NT,
let me be the first to put my hand up and confess that I don't understand the point of this thread ?
What's it for, where's it going ?
Any benefit, psychological or otherwise to be gained by members of T2W who participate here ?
What's your objective ?

there, I've asked, and I'm not embarassed at doing so in front of my peers.

temptrader · May 18, 2008

grantx said:
NT,

A few years ago I enrolled on a part-time MSc in Mathematical Modelling (short-lived, unfortunately). The class was all male with an age range of late twenties to mid fifties. When a question was asked hands would shoot up (one could almost hear, "me sir, me sir) - from grown men. It was fckin' embarrassing.

Grant.

Mathematics is totally formalizable. Hence if you DON'T understand it is completely clear to everyone WHY you don't understand, and the teacher can immediately give you a formal solution to the thing in question so you can get to understand. And also the problems, even open ones, we can get a formal grasp at, even though their solution is elusive.

However, there might be a case that you don't understand because prerequisite material has not been mastered, but that's another matter.

rols · May 18, 2008

rathcoole_exile said:
NT,
let me be the first to put my hand up and confess that I don't understand the point of this thread ?
What's it for, where's it going ?
Any benefit, psychological or otherwise to be gained by members of T2W who participate here ?
What's your objective ?

there, I've asked, and I'm not embarassed at doing so in front of my peers.

I'd like to put my hand up too but I don't know which one to choose...

Splitlink · May 18, 2008

I must confess that most of the non-fiction books dealing with profound subjects have always ended up on my bookshelf, about a quarter read. I don't like to throw them out, either. The price of them must, at least, serve some useful purpose, even it is only to impress visitors.

The ones that I do read, however, must be got rid of. I take them round to the church for its summer sale and where the chaplain looks doubtfully at them and says "Are they decent?

new_trader · May 18, 2008

grantx said:
NT,

A few years ago I enrolled on a part-time MSc in Mathematical Modelling (short-lived, unfortunately). The class was all male with an age range of late twenties to mid fifties. When a question was asked hands would shoot up (one could almost hear, "me sir, me sir) - from grown men. It was fckin' embarrassing.

Grant.

Putting your hand up when asked if you know the answer is different to not knowing the answer and not putting your hand up when someone asks you to put your hand up if you don't know the answer.

Does everyone understand?

Hands up if you don't.

superspurs · May 18, 2008

dont get me wrong but in the pub im the first to say wtf but that is because i can see who im dealing with,if he is bigger,i am off for a p##s

temptrader · May 18, 2008

new_trader said:
Putting your hand up when asked if you know the answer is different to not knowing the answer and not putting your hand up when someone asks you to put your hand up if you don't know the answer.

Does everyone understand?

Hands up if you don't.

former is being honest, latter is denial. What more can one say?

And what's more, you are saying that most here don't have a clue, but they think they do, and they perpetuate this, poisoning themselves to the very end - or rather when they've blown their accounts.

Splitlink · May 18, 2008

temptrader said:
former is being honest, latter is denial. What more can one say?

And what's more, you are saying that most here don't have a clue, but they think they do, and they perpetuate this, poisoning themselves to the very end - or rather when they've blown their accounts.

I seem to be following the same theme on two threads.

The fact is that no one does have a clue because we cannot forecast the future.

Atilla · May 18, 2008

temptrader said:
former is being honest, latter is denial. What more can one say?

And what's more, you are saying that most here don't have a clue, but they think they do, and they perpetuate this, poisoning themselves to the very end - or rather when they've blown their accounts.

What on earth is this tosh about I have no idea???

Explain your selves instead of making profound sentences that mean Jack!

Crap Buddist · May 19, 2008

Well, I'm a man of many wishes ,Hope my premonition misses,But what I really feel my eyes won't let me hide ,‘Cause they always start to cry ,‘Cause this time could mean goodbye ......

yeah......

er, might be in the wrong thread but... Stevie has his place.

Crap Buddist · May 19, 2008

On this one from what i recall the teachers at my school tended to eyeball and suss the struggling student, pacing up the rows between desks, "ok there ?" "alright?" And so a teacher should, they should be sensitive to creating and nurturing a free flowing enquiry room, if they dont, they have failed in their duty as I see it. A teacher should ensure all kids make the grade or die trying. If they aint too bothered then , well, they in the wrong job.

I know I would be sacked in my first term as a tutor because of this mindset.

temptrader · May 19, 2008

Crap Buddist said:
On this one from what i recall the teachers at my school tended to eyeball and suss the struggling student, pacing up the rows between desks, "ok there ?" "alright?" And so a teacher should, they should be sensitive to creating and nurturing a free flowing enquiry room, if they dont, they have failed in their duty as I see it. A teacher should ensure all kids make the grade or die trying. If they aint too bothered then , well, they in the wrong job.

I know I would be sacked in my first term as a tutor because of this mindset.

this is a good point but you forget a few things:

1) this is not a class room, there is no agreed curriculum, nor is there past success rates available. Most of the time, most of the posters here don't even know what they are going on about. This is a free for all here, and that's all . . .
2) there is no obligation for anyone to teach anyone else anything
3) at the highest level (university level amongst my professors), there is a general consensus (right or wrong and I DON'T want to discuss it with FW here) that only a few make the grade and the rest do something else (go into banking, accountancy etc . . .)
4) it is only in T2W's interest that the site be popular, hence all sorts of junk is peddled for amusement and for newbies to waste their time away on, thus satisfying advertisers and view statistics
5) and tell me why all these students who enter the lesson think that automatically qualifies them to succeed? . .

Crap Buddist · May 19, 2008

temptrader said:
this is a good point but you forget a few things:

1) this is not a class room, there is no agreed curriculum, nor is there past success rates available. Most of the time, most of the posters here don't even know what they are going on about. This is a free for all here, and that's all . . .
2) there is no obligation for anyone to teach anyone else anything
3) at the highest level (university level amongst my professors), there is a general consensus (right or wrong and I DON'T want to discuss it with FW here) that only a few make the grade and the rest do something else (go into banking, accountancy etc . . .)
4) it is only in T2W's interest that the site be popular, hence all sorts of junk is peddled for amusement and for newbies to waste their time away on, thus satisfying advertisers and view statistics
5) and tell me why all these students who enter the lesson think that automatically qualifies them to succeed? . .

Hello temp.. I agree mate. I was purely relating to my schooling exposure,not T2W. Personally I think trading is a "rights of passage" path/examination/assessment.

firewalker99 · May 19, 2008

new_trader said:
Putting your hand up when asked if you know the answer is different to not knowing the answer and not putting your hand up when someone asks you to put your hand up if you don't know the answer.

Incidentally, this was just posted elsewhere:

firewalker99 said:
He that knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool - shun him.
He that knows not and knows that he knows not is weak - pity him.
He that knows and knows not that he knows is asleep - wake him.
He that knows and knows that he knows is wise - follow him.

(Arabian proverb).

Atilla said:
Rumsfeld's poem - as taken from the official transcripts on the Defense Department Web site.

The Unknown
As we know,
There are known knowns.
There are things we know we know.
We also know
There are known unknowns.
That is to say
We know there are some things
We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we don't know
We don't know.

—Feb. 12, 2002, Department of Defense news briefing

new_trader · May 19, 2008

He that knows and knows that he knows is wise - follow him.

0007 · May 19, 2008

temptrader said:
this is a good point but you forget a few things:

1) this is not a class room, there is no agreed curriculum, nor is there past success rates available. Most of the time, most of the posters here don't even know what they are going on about. This is a free for all here, and that's all . . .
2) there is no obligation for anyone to teach anyone else anything
3) at the highest level (university level amongst my professors), there is a general consensus (right or wrong and I DON'T want to discuss it with FW here) that only a few make the grade and the rest do something else (go into banking, accountancy etc . . .)
4) it is only in T2W's interest that the site be popular, hence all sorts of junk is peddled for amusement and for newbies to waste their time away on, thus satisfying advertisers and view statistics
5) and tell me why all these students who enter the lesson think that automatically qualifies them to succeed? . .

Agree.

Put your hand up if you don’t understand.

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