tencorp vs trader_dante

i've started this thread in response to the "system vendor performance" thread.

i'll make some live calls here and you can see for yourself how easy it is to make money.

first trade:

order to be placed:

long usd/cad @ 1.0311
stop @ 0.9710

3rd post and already into a trade off.. love it.. no point hanging around..crash and burn.. go get hum

tencorp said:

i've started this thread in response to the "system vendor performance" thread.

i'll make some live calls here and you can see for yourself how easy it is to make money.

first trade:

order to be placed:

long usd/cad @ 1.0311
stop @ 0.9710

Click to expand...

A 601 tick stop loss??

I'm happy to post my trades for 1 month. What markets are you trading your system on though? We'll have to do the same to keep it fair.

Also, it would be a good idea to give an account size and detail how many lots you are doing per trade otherwise no one has any idea of your risk management concepts.

theroguetrader said:

can i ask please - because im intrigued...??


the pivot on that pair is at 1.022, and its stuck against a resistance area around 1.0224, the 40 day MA is pointing DOWN -
and your BUYING at 1.03 with a 600 point stop ...???

how come...???

Its been on an uptrend since the 19/3 and that came to an end on the 24/3 - 375 pips (ish)

Click to expand...

i am looking to buy because my system has given me a signal. i am afraid my setups are a secret. the large stop is common on entry. it is quickly trailed.

dante, i am using this system on the 6 forex majors - eur/usd, gbp/usd, usd/chf, usd/cad, usd/jpy and aud/usd. i will also use it on the ym, gold and oil.

money management is not something i concern myself with. that is up to the individual.

1 month from today then we will see who has the most ticks.

Thank you tencorp for kicking this off.

I think its a great concept you are about to embark upon.

I understand you are providing a setup only and would agree that money management is up to the individual as is lot sizes.

Just by providing entry and exits only would be a great benefit to anyone following them and I'm sure that your sure that if struggling traders put their money on the line on your trades then they would make the money needed to purchase the system.

Although some new traders will overstretch themselves and ultimately lose their balance, for those who have control over greed will succeed.

As far as I can see this is a win win situation and would like to provide encouragement for this type of 'pre-emptive trading examples' as oppose to 'past trading examples' for what we've all seen before.

Dinos,

Tencorp is presumably trying to prove that his "system" is worth the money it costs and I am trying to prove that a strategy offered for free can stand up to the challenge. The only outlay you need to learn it is time.

I agree with tss42 though. Unless Tencorp reveals his company name he has nothing to lose and a lot to gain.

Tom

Trade #1:

Long GBP/USD at 1.9976
Stop at 1.9948

Risk = 28 ticks

Chart 1 shows the market has reversed within a s/r pivot zone.

Chart 2 shows confluence with the 50 fib from the swing low.

Hi TD,

in the same trade entry off fib extension 9935 - 1st atrget 2.0010

TheTick said:

Intrigued by this. Will you be posting only the actual trades you make or each signal given? Obviously in reality account size will limit the number of trades you can have at a given time, but in theory with a big enough account you could take them all.

Click to expand...

I will post every signal given providing that I see and call it BEFORE it has triggered.

It is important to note that I am not actually taking these trades with real money because I am on simulator at a prop firm and prohibited by company rules from trading my own account.

I am using the strategy that I have outlined in my thread and would certainly take them if I was allowed.

Trade update: Move stop to 1.9977 (+1 on entry)

Reason: Market is trading into first overhead pivot and I want to see momentum here

Hoggums said:

Can we not have pips won - but percentage of original account won as the benchmark.

E.g. dante might be trading to win on average 30pips per trade, and tencorp 300. If dante's trade size is > 10x that of tencorp then he'll actually make more money but tencorp will claim victory via pips.

You should also take account of overnight interest charges if holding long term positions.

Click to expand...

Can anyone volunteer as a judge/moderator that can make decisions and rule on these matters?

If someone gives me an initial account size I will position size accordingly. I intend to risk 2% per trade for hourly TF trades and 5% for daily TF trades.

Comissions, slippage and overnight interest will be tricky to work out. Perhaps we can assume a general amount for each trade? It depends how in depth people want to go with this.

I am using MT4 to calculate entry and stop points. The charts work off the bid but if I am going long or buying back a short I make sure I buy at the offer so it is fair.

Trade update: Move stop to 1.9990 (+14 on entry)

Sell to close Gbp/Usd at 2.0028

Reason: market trades into 61 fib of swing high and London and Europe have closed

Net profit: + 52 ticks per contract

nice trade dante. although shame you couldn't hold it as it's now well over 30 ticks higher than when you sold it. it seems like you use a lot of discretion in your trading. having a system takes that discretion element away and means you don't second guess yourself or end up with any kind of inner conflict. you put your faith in statistics which you have obtained from rigorous back testing.

ok - to answer a few of the points on here. i think it would be important to judge the winner by seeing how much money they have returned on an initial balance. for ease i suggest we have a theoretical account balance of £10,000 and rather than calculating lot sizes for each of the different contracts which would be time consuming, why not do this from a spreadbetting perspective (x amount per tick) which is actually the vehicle that the majority of my clients use to access the markets. that way we can position size more efficiently. i don't think slippage will play a part as the majority of my entries and exits are done in stable conditions. overnight charges are going to make things complex but i don't really have the inclination to start logging into demo accounts to place "actual" trades to see what the rollover costs would be.

ultimately it means little whether dante beats me. i know my system is profitable. i have evidence of that. the only reason i challenged him is because he riled me enough by suggesting that all vendors are cowards. i am sure some of them are but equally some of them are not. yes some system vendors are crooks who know they are defrauding people, others are more genuine but simply don't have enough experience and knowledge to backtest a system properly and therefore have no idea, at least in the beginning, that their systems are going to crumble once they are rolled out under live conditions. but there are some who have something good. this is what i have but right now i don't have the money to trade it which is why i am selling the signals to raise capital.

tencorp said:

for ease i suggest we have a theoretical account balance of £10,000 and rather than calculating lot sizes for each of the different contracts which would be time consuming, why not do this from a spreadbetting perspective (x amount per tick) which is actually the vehicle that the majority of my clients use to access the markets. that way we can position size more efficiently.

Click to expand...

OK. Assuming an initial account balance of £10,000, I would, as I stated earlier risk 2% on an hourly TF trade and 5% on a daily.

The Gbp/Usd trade was taken on the hourly TF.

2% of £10,000 is £200. The risk on that trade from entry to exit was 28 ticks.

£200 / 28 = £7.14

We'll round that down and hopefully everyone can allow me to say that I would have taken that at £7 a tick.

The trade made 52 ticks profit. 52 X 7 = £364.

So, if my maths is any good, which it's not, then I am ahead 3.64% after trade #1.

I suggest that you both ignore slippage/commissions ... that could always be applied by someone after the fact to examine the effect. Can you both keep a spreadsheet of the trades (to make analysis easier later)?

Noting of course that this is pretty relaxed regarding proof and testing.

entry on usd/cad is at 1.0312 (i've moved it up by 1 tick)

stop is now at 0.9740 (this has been moved up also according to the system rules)

no other trades lined up.

probably won't need any either to win this.

chump said:

Tencorp,
Classic breakout play for size.Stop exactly where it should be for the inital trigger.Unfortunately ,won't make much sense for daytraders and small accounts who are focussing on every little twitch in the market...

Click to expand...

the majority of traders that try and get on board every move are the ones just lose consistently. i find it ironic that many traders on this board will turn their nose up at my strategy because it has a big stop on a trade and go onto bleed the same number of ticks away but just take slightly longer to do it making sucker plays all day long. the simple fact is, if you're a newbie, you're not cutting your risk by cutting your stop size - you're increasing your risk!

Order entered to buy Usd/Cad at 1.0231
Stop at 1.0094

Risk = 137 ticks

Trade entry:

This is a limit order with no slippage. If the price were to open on Sunday night above my entry price my order will not be filled and I will then examine other possible entries.

Risk Management:

The profit from my first trade was £364.

I have decided to risk 50% of that profit on this trade. (£182)

This gives me a trade size of £1 a tick initially although I may pyramid aggressively with this one if it breaks out.

Reason for trade:

Chart 1 shows the market is in an extended sideways range on the daily TF. Overhead we have a significant s/r pivot point.

Chart 2 is a close up of the daily TF. It shows price has formed a consolidating triangle just beneath the s/r pivot. In addition we have a series of candles with lower ranges. Price is winding up. This pattern can precede a sharp breakout.

Chart 3 is the hourly TF. It shows price broke out of the descending TL late Friday but didn't have enough momentum into the close to get through another s/r pivot just above.

Chart 4 shows the hourly s/r pivot on the daily TF. One can clearly see that it is another significant level.

So, what we have is two strong resistance levels that price is trading into.

I expect the market to make a decision here. Either it will reject the levels and head lower or it will have a go at breaking to the upside. The latter option is my bias from reading the price action and as a result, I have put my order above the high of Fridays inside bar. I have put my corresponding stop beneath the swing low. This is the point at which the market has, at least temporarily, proved me wrong.

Trade update: Usd/Cad stop moved to 1.0190 (-41 ticks)

Canadian GDP up in 40 minutes.