If you must buy a trading system...

This is a discussion on If you must buy a trading system... within the General Trading Chat forums, part of the Reception category; I recently brought a trading system from ELMTRADER it has performed very badly and I lost 50% of my capital.. ...

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Old Mar 14, 2008, 5:53pm   #50
Joined Dec 2007
I recently brought a trading system from ELMTRADER it has performed very badly and I lost 50% of my capital.. The thing is that the calculations were wrong and thus transfered into the signals wrongly! You should only develop your own systems dont trust anyones work!
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Old Mar 14, 2008, 5:57pm   #51
 
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Originally Posted by tss42 View Post
Dear New Trader
Flick through the Market Wizard books and you'll find dozens of system traders (or mechanical traders, whatever you call them) who made many 100s of millions.

You haven't.

Don't assume you know everything.

PS. Is trawling message boards day and night part of 'working hard on trading'? Just curious.
Is trawling message boards day and night part of 'working hard on trading'?

Initially, yes. Now I actually do it just to keep myself occupied whilst waiting for the perfect trade. I learned a great deal from one of the members on this board, and a good deal from others. I haven’t read that Market Wizards book but I am considering writing one of my own to sell, oh, and a few trading system as well. Seems like easy money to me.
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Old Mar 14, 2008, 8:00pm   #52
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Originally Posted by zentrader22 View Post
@new_trader, temptrader,

my approach isn't fundamental. I think there are many ways to play the markets, whether you use discretionary or systematic trading.

Using strictly systematic trading has the same input of time and effort, but for the developer and not for the (potential) buyer of the system.

Monte Carlo Simulation methods are only an add-on to the conventional (systematic) system development process, which can lead to a more robust system setup. I described this in a Traders' article a year ago:
http://www.zentrader.de/mcs_article_traders2007.pdf

And it's clear that there's no 100% reliability in trading. There's always the possibility of a "black swan":
Amazon.com: The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable: Nassim Nicholas Taleb: Books

bye,
zentrader
You have something to sell. I don't - and never will. Systematic trading can take all of your emotions out of the equation if you follow blindly. But if you are doing this then you have no understanding of what's really going on and we have the case of the blind leading the blind. And if anyone sees this as a way to make money, then they deserve to loss their money.

Statistical methods have their place in science, especially medicine, when used to test new drugs and effectiveness of treatments and surgical procedures, because EXPLICIT understanding of the situation at hand is NOT possible. If explicit understand is possible, you don't need to base effectiveness on statistical results. Read the latter comment very carefully to see if you understand what I'm getting at.

I've looked at the Taleb book and I disagree with some of it. And if you know what you know you will realise that some "swans" are not actually black, even though they are made to "look" black - oops, better not let the cat out of the bag there.

Taleb's book is for the layman, there is nothing there that is mind blowing or you can't work out for yourself if you have the kind of background that I have. It makes good copy for popularizers of science and nothing more.
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Old Mar 14, 2008, 8:47pm   #53
 
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Originally Posted by temptrader View Post
Systematic trading can take all of your emotions out of the equation if you follow blindly.
Nobody who has traded systematically for any length of time will agree with this. The emotions are different, but definitely still there.

jj
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Old Mar 14, 2008, 8:54pm   #54
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Originally Posted by Mathemagician View Post
Nobody who has traded systematically for any length of time will agree with this. The emotions are different, but definitely still there.

jj
jj,

I did state "if" in the sentence. That is a big "if" for most people of course.
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Old Mar 14, 2008, 8:54pm   #55
 
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One warning here guys. (No, I don't mean just the last two posts.)

It is clear that a number of you have views on System/Discretionary trading that are divergent.

Anyone reading the thread can get a view of each of your perspectives and the extent to which each of you is personalizing it. This isn't that american board so stop now ... no further responses are needed. There is no need for further argument on Taleb and his grey, black, white and purple swans ... it's a book well worth getting out of the library and reading to get one's thinking going whether or not everything in it is presented evenly and 100% accurately and without (just a touch of) arrogance.

Calm the argument please or I'll have to go through and clean up your old posts and issue some infractions (and I haven't figured out how to do that yet so I could accidentally ban your ID for life). Please keep the posts on the original topic and without the counter punches.

Last edited by nine; Mar 14, 2008 at 9:03pm.
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Old Mar 14, 2008, 9:08pm   #56
 
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hmmm whats the problem with system vendors and or head PHUCKS? its good for the biz ? traders will and do PHUCK intentionally over people everyday with their sole intent on being Rob those PHUCKERS....

Its worse than taking money from an old age pensioner, but, thats capitalism, anyone with a problem with it can always go and bash license plates in a monestary for 3 decades and think about whats pure and right and ... whatever..

if you want to flog or buy a system do it, if you want to PHUCK over someone in the markets do it... who is right or wrong ?

all about robbing thy neighbour.......
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