The revolution of capitalism - John Gray

Heard this on R4 this morning, superb piece IMHO. Clear, brief and relevant..

SYNOPSIS

The author and philosopher John Gray presents a hard-hitting talk about capitalism.

He argues that one side-effect of the financial crisis is an increasing number of people who believe that Karl Marx was right.

He outlines why Marx's belief that capitalism would lead to revolution - and end bourgeois life - has come true. But not in the way Marx imagined. For increasing numbers of people, he says, a middle class existence is no longer even an aspiration. "More and more people live from day to day with little idea of what the future will bring".

"It's wasn't communism that did the deed" he says. "It's capitalism that has killed off the bourgeoisie".

Producer: Adele Armstrong.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b013r2ld

Great post and programme - thanks for posting

Up the workers !

thank you for posting this.

Thanks for the post. Read the book and overall liked it a bit. I wished it was a little more unbiased, especially at the end.

You're welcome guys...

total boll0x.

after ussr went off the scales the westerners relaxed and the states started to nanny and feed their population as uneducated parents spoil their children then they come into money suddenly.

as result the new generations dont want to struggle. they are weak and cowardly.

what you saw in riots - the lowest part of these generations (who were simply waiting for an opportunity). the other equally large part are w@ankers from middle class who is writing about captalists stealing from people, about filfy rich and that banks must be closed down and the wealth must be redistributed...

all of this cr@p is nothing to do with marx who was a w@anker himself. it is just the way low prideless lazy cowards are thinking - to get their living from others.

in short - middle class is the collective Marx novaday. and they were born due to relaxed, proto-socialist steps made by western governemnts.

(just found..... is the thing Marx wouldnt even dream: "The news follows reports that three men allegedly tied to the group were detained in Spain last week, a move that sparked a statement from an Anonymous spokesperson. “You have not detained three participants of Anonymous. We have no members and we are not a group of any kind. You have, however, detained three civilians expressing themselves,” the group wrote on Saturday in a statement directed at the Spanish government. “You are providing us with the fuel, but now you must expect the fire.” Anonymous, which refers to itself as an “international Internet hactivist collective,” ")

UOTE=maxima;1667610]total boll0x.

after ussr went off the scales the westerners relaxed and the states started to nanny and feed their population as uneducated parents spoil their children then they come into money suddenly.

as result the new generations dont want to struggle. they are weak and cowardly.

what you saw in riots - the lowest part of these generations (who were simply waiting for an opportunity). the other equally large part are w@ankers from middle class who is writing about captalists stealing from people, about filfy rich and that banks must be closed down and the wealth must be redistributed...

all of this cr@p is nothing to do with marx who was a w@anker himself. it is just the way low prideless lazy cowards are thinking - to get their living from others.

in short - middle class is the collective Marx novaday. and they were born due to relaxed, proto-socialist steps made by western governemnts.

(just found..... is the thing Marx wouldnt even dream: "The news follows reports that three men allegedly tied to the group were detained in Spain last week, a move that sparked a statement from an Anonymous spokesperson. “You have not detained three participants of Anonymous. We have no members and we are not a group of any kind. You have, however, detained three civilians expressing themselves,” the group wrote on Saturday in a statement directed at the Spanish government. “You are providing us with the fuel, but now you must expect the fire.” Anonymous, which refers to itself as an “international Internet hactivist collective,” ")[/QUOTE]

I wonder if you would turn the light up a little brighter on this "Anonymous" lot, because I can't understand what they are talking about. Is it about the economic situation in Spain, at present? Because we don't need that lot of ******s to tell us that we are up the creek. To get out of our present situation. there has got to be a new government. right wing, because the present socialists are revoltingagainst Zapatero, who can see disaster staring him in the face. He is the only one who one ,though. who may, finally. have seen the light and, By God, it has taken him long enough.

John Betjeman refers (in his book "Trains and Buttered Toast") to a book by Leslie Paul *The annihilation of man" - I severely precis his extract from page 150 - "if mans' efforts are subordinated to the need to constantly increase the volume of consumers and producers goods, if he wants a hollywood life style, cars, latest gadgets above all other things, then man is just as much a prisoner of the economic process whether his goaler is a commissar, a banker or a party boss: the economic tyranny in the end will be just as unendurable. Like living as one of many ants in an ants nest." unfortunately (depending on your point of view) he thinks Christianity is a better way to lead ones' life, equality of opportunity etc. Less of a marketer or advertising/ consumerist led world maybe?

Capitalism has its hiccups but has led to a far superior quality of life for billions of people, including food and water, not just luxury items.
If your baby messed up in the bath, what would you do?
Clean up or kill the baby?
Richard

Since when did we live in a Capitalist regime?

tommog said:

Since when did we live in a Capitalist regime?

Click to expand...

Since your life isn't the property of the feudal lord. Maybe if you spent some time living in an utter **** hole ran by a foul dictator you would realise that.

On another note, here is American take on capitalism (taken from the Wonder Showzen): Global Politics in 30 Seconds - YouTube

Since your life isn't the property of the feudal lord. Maybe if you spent some time living in an utter **** hole ran by a foul dictator you would realise that.

Click to expand...

Id say thats more to do with Democracy.

Of course im being a bit facetious. But in all seriousness people declaring the economic troubleswe are in is the fault of capitalism are way of the mark in my opinion.

A truly capitalist system would see all the bank employees that took large risks that didnt pay off, out of a job and the shareholders that perpetuated the culture of "screw the consequences" bankrupt. Instead the state keeps their champagne lifestyle well funded.

A truly capitalist system would have allowed Greece to default before the state doubled up on the bet they will pull themselves out of trouble and has turned a what would have been a bad financial situation into one that is bordering on inconceivable.

Large multinational companies in America should have gone out of business and let the well managed small companies have their chance to eat up some market share, instead a huge bail out keep writing the pay cheques for employees that have lost money.

Of course I could go on and on

tommog said:

Id say thats more to do with Democracy.

Of course im being a bit facetious. But in all seriousness people declaring the economic troubleswe are in is the fault of capitalism are way of the mark in my opinion.

A truly capitalist system would see all the bank employees that took large risks that didnt pay off, out of a job and the shareholders that perpetuated the culture of "screw the consequences" bankrupt. Instead the state keeps their champagne lifestyle well funded.

A truly capitalist system would have allowed Greece to default before the state doubled up on the bet they will pull themselves out of trouble and has turned a what would have been a bad financial situation into one that is bordering on inconceivable.

Large multinational companies in America should have gone out of business and let the well managed small companies have their chance to eat up some market share, instead a huge bail out keep writing the pay cheques for employees that have lost money.

Of course I could go on and on

Click to expand...

Capitalism is an economic system in which means of production are privately owned, let's not try to make it any more complicated than that. What you propose as "true" capitalism is the Mises Institute brand of "If you get the flu, then its your fault for being out in the cold and you need to die of fever" capitalism. BTW Austrian economics if more of a school of philosophy than economics, I think that Austrian economics is to economics what alternative medicine is to medicine...

Anonymous (this is my educated guess because I think very few people really know whats going on) is a bunch of p1ssed off hackers who made hacking tools available to anyone who expressed interest. Despite the myth that hacking is very complex activity for eggheads - rebels, it is quite simple. If you have access to basic tools and someone showed you the ropes..

The complex hacking of binary codes, encoded info etc is (my guess again) about 1% of hacking and is performed by eggheads.

But to disrupt our normal life you just need a bunch of pimpled w@nkers and secure communication layer.

So ultimately one guy could be the Anonymous with couple of hundreds recruits who he let call themselves Anonymous (pride as a payment - the oldest catch in the universe).

Now what is it about.

Imagine a guerilla group with weapons and explosives who can blend into the crowd easily. No islamic beards no crazy eyes. Just normal 20-30 yo usual guys with laptop in backpack. They blow pieces of real stuff. Not just some stupid websites with stupid texts. They blow real services like WW2 guerilla will blow up railways and trains with real people. They hacked website for epileptics with some flashing pictures and induced real seizures on real people in real world.

--------------
Here is news I didnt see:

The US Department of Homeland Security today [7th?] released an urgent head-up bulletin to the the ‘financial sector’ alerting it about the “planned activities of hacking collective Anonymous over the next few months”.

“Anonymous has recently used Twitter to try and persuade dissatisfied employees within the financial sector to give them information and access. ... unwilling coercion through embarrassment or blackmail may be a risk to personnel"
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This is the biggest challenge for security services since the taming scientologists. They can mutate and migrate anywhere in the world. You cut one piece they will grow another (thank you to the middle class w@ankers). They are part of the system. They are autoimmune illnes or nastiest of the cancers.

We not only have North Korea, Iran, majority of the Arabs, Pakistan wishing us quietly and openly to die. We now also have our own youth on full self-desructive drive.

it seems good, thank you

An American tourist was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked.

Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The tourist complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The Mexican replied, "Only a little while."

The tourist then asked, "Why didn't you stay out longer and catch more fish?"

The Mexican said, "With this I have more than enough to support my family's needs."

The tourist then asked, "But what do you do with the rest of your time?"

The Mexican fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siesta with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos, I have a full and busy life."

The tourist scoffed, " I can help you. You should spend more time fishing; and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat: With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats. Eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor; eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution. You could leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then Los Angeles and eventually New York where you could run your ever-expanding enterprise."

The Mexican fisherman asked, "But, how long will this all take?"

The tourist replied, "15 to 20 years."

"But what then?" asked the Mexican.

The tourist laughed and said, "That's the best part. When the time is right you would sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions."

"Millions?...Then what?"

The American said, "Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos."

Black Swan said:

An American tourist was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked.

Click to expand...

I know that Mexican. His name is Joakim Nadacojones Cobarde Pokahontes.

I am not going to talk about science, culture, pride or humanity in global.

I just want to tell the details of his life.

His son was taken to serve in North Korean army because country he lived couldnt afford to defend themselves against countries where hedonism and selfishness are outlawed.

His daughter was taken by albanians to prostitute for free in the UK as the village he lived had only one policeman who was busy doing his wife in siesta time and doing Joakim's wife in the evenings Joakim went to drink with his friends.

His wife died later. She was pregnant from the policeman and syphilis, she contracted from the fireman, complicated the pregnancy and made her bleed and she died on the way to the only hospital in the country (nobody wanted to waste 9 yrs to get doctor diploma (because everyone was busy catching a bit of tuna and having siesta with sweaty women) and the country didnt have money (because everyone was busy catching a bit of tuna and having siesta with sweaty women) to engage foreign specialist.)

Joakim died next year after that doing the policeman's wife while the policeman was doing the fireman's wife.
He chocked on his own snot the policeman's wife shoved him into refuse sack afraid to leave his body in the house and pushed him into the sea where he finally died and yellow fin tuna ate his remains.