Day Trading Is Not Dead...

Thanks for posting. I like this quote from the article:

"TA is based on the effects on price of human emotion, so as long as humans still have a place in the market it should still be a part of any investment strategy. And if humans no longer have any place in the market, then every type of investing is dead."

Peter
 
wackypete2 said:
Thanks for posting. I like this quote from the article:

"TA is based on the effects on price of human emotion, so as long as humans still have a place in the market it should still be a part of any investment strategy. And if humans no longer have any place in the market, then every type of investing is dead."

Peter
Click to expand...

yeah me too...interesting that with all the banter on various threads here on the validity of TA vs order flow/level2, that both articles mention TA as still having validity as part of a trading strategy, while both agree that order flow/level 2 is very easily manipulated and specifically targeted by algo's....
 
spy74 said:
yeah me too...interesting that with all the banter on various threads here on the validity of TA vs order flow/level2, that both articles mention TA as still having validity as part of a trading strategy, while both agree that order flow/level 2 is very easily manipulated and specifically targeted by algo's....
Click to expand...

I think that I mentioned on the other thread that I was suspicious of orderflow data. What has, also, kept me safe from all this stuff is that I have never been able to get to it without pressing buttons, etc. I avoid new sites like the plague and work on the principle that "they want your money" :)
 
spy74 said:
yeah me too...interesting that with all the banter on various threads here on the validity of TA vs order flow/level2, that both articles mention TA as still having validity as part of a trading strategy, while both agree that order flow/level 2 is very easily manipulated and specifically targeted by algo's....
Click to expand...

Level 2 is easily manipulated. Order flow is not. You can't fake order flow - it's merely the result of trading activity.

What is lost on most people is that manipulation on L2/DOM is what makes it the most valuable indicator of intent.

If there was no value in manipulating L2/DOM, then the manipulaters wouldn't do it. If there is value in manipulating L2/DOM, you just have to be on the right side of that manipulation. You also have to have an idea of just how much someone can manipulate a market and for how long. If you think about arbitrage, then you will know that no-one can knock certain markets out of synch for very long anyway.

Of course, all of this requires you to be multi-faceted.

It is small wonder that so many people are losing money when they hold such simplistic views.
 
spy74 said:
http://blog.t3live.com/2010/10/mike-lee-answers-all-day-trading-is-not.html


not sure exactly where it is, but someone started a thread with the "day trading is dead" article which was posted on zerohedge....the link above goes to an article which i thought provided a good rebuttal with a few more facts and some well needed clarity

(y)
Click to expand...

T3live is an proprietary trading firm base in New York.


Below is an screen shot of their virtual trading floor on Thursday 28 october, the top stocks window is the 15 top stocks they day trade and the profits they made in each stock.They use to have an leaderboard showing you how much the top 10 trader made in realtime. I would say this is an below average day trading day for the T3live team.


TRADING PROFILE OF MIKE LEE
http://www.t3live.com/profile/profile.php?userid=60



virtual trading floor

Listen to Live Trader Radios and Watch Screen Cameras Trader radios and screen cameras allow you to listen LIVE to successful traders during each trading day while you watch their screens. Watch and listen for the next great opportunity in the markets and guidance on how to execute. The VTF also includes daily leaderboards, action alerts, and newsfeeds.
 

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DionysusToast said:
Level 2 is easily manipulated. Order flow is not. You can't fake order flow - it's merely the result of trading activity.

What is lost on most people is that manipulation on L2/DOM is what makes it the most valuable indicator of intent.

If there was no value in manipulating L2/DOM, then the manipulaters wouldn't do it. If there is value in manipulating L2/DOM, you just have to be on the right side of that manipulation. You also have to have an idea of just how much someone can manipulate a market and for how long. If you think about arbitrage, then you will know that no-one can knock certain markets out of synch for very long anyway.

Of course, all of this requires you to be multi-faceted.

It is small wonder that so many people are losing money when they hold such simplistic views.
Click to expand...

I must clarify..time and sales is not manipulated, is is actual trading activity and is extremely useful especially around key reference points in the market. I was meaning DOM/level 2.
 
I hear you, Spy.

BTW - I wasn't calling your views 'simplistic' but that of anyone that says "it's manipulated, so it can't be useful"

Anything that's worth manipulating MUST be useful.
 
spy74 said:
http://blog.t3live.com/2010/10/mike-lee-answers-all-day-trading-is-not.html


not sure exactly where it is, but someone started a thread with the "day trading is dead" article which was posted on zerohedge....the link above goes to an article which i thought provided a good rebuttal with a few more facts and some well needed clarity

(y)
Click to expand...

:LOL: Yep that's real quality, hold the front page, prop firm, desperate for new cannon fodder, defends position... who'd have thunk it..;)

Q: How do I pick up women in bars? Saying I am a day trader isn’t working.

A: First of all, I laughed out loud at the comments on this post: “You need patience and discipline and with practice you'll see the best setups and be able to execute on them. Losses are inevitable but don't get emotional….reply: ya i need to stop fading the hottest stock/chick and blowing up my pnl/wallet”. Well done, guys, well done indeed. Before I met my lovely girlfriend through my first triathlon training (something I recommend you all do), I was a radiologist, a kinesthesiologist and, every time fleet week arrived in New York, I was a sailor. If you want to pick up woman in NYC, go out dressed up as a sailor during fleet week. In all seriousness, though, getting girls, like trading, like anything in life, is all about confidence and a can-do attitude.
 
spy74 said:
I must clarify..time and sales is not manipulated, is is actual trading activity and is extremely useful especially around key reference points in the market. I was meaning DOM/level 2.
Click to expand...

Some time ago when I was trading shares, I used Level 2. That was such a waste of time. Big players would apply all sort of tricks (breaking their orders into smaller pieces, misleading orders etc.). After some time just gave up the idea and moved to the charts completely.
 
bedsit said:
Some time ago when I was trading shares, I used Level 2. That was such a waste of time. Big players would apply all sort of tricks (breaking their orders into smaller pieces, misleading orders etc.). After some time just gave up the idea and moved to the charts completely.
Click to expand...

IMHO one of the best frames of mind to get into as a whale 5hit day trader is knowing your place in the food chain. Heh, be positive about the positive expectancy of your edge, but all this happy clappy whoop whoop bu115hit drives me mad...and just look at the state of that website, you could do better using moonfruit or wild-apricot...

Even in that section I highlighted the beaut manages to make out he's great with women, when he's not flying around the Empire State Building saving damsels in distress, he's sky-diving or running triathalons..gtf you sad tw@ts, just trade and stfu..

As for DOM/Level 2 yeah great...and?
 
Black Swan said:
IMHO one of the best frames of mind to get into as a whale 5hit day trader is knowing your place in the food chain. Heh, be positive about the positive expectancy of your edge, but all this happy clappy whoop whoop bu115hit drives me mad...and just look at the state of that website, you could do better using moonfruit or wild-apricot...

Even in that section I highlighted the beaut manages to make out he's great with women, when he's not flying around the Empire State Building saving damsels in distress, he's sky-diving or running triathalons..gtf you sad tw@ts, just trade and stfu..

As for DOM/Level 2 yeah great...and?
Click to expand...

crikey....the website is a bit cheesy (as are most trading related websites...). just thght he made some reasonable comments re an article some guy wrote about daytrading being dead....
 
bedsit said:
Some time ago when I was trading shares, I used Level 2. That was such a waste of time. Big players would apply all sort of tricks (breaking their orders into smaller pieces, misleading orders etc.). After some time just gave up the idea and moved to the charts completely.
Click to expand...

Why is it so hard to understand.

The fact that they play tricks means it's worth THEIR while playing them. You just didn't know the game. You got played. This does not mean it's not worthwhile.
 
Black Swan said:
Even in that section I highlighted the beaut manages to make out he's great with women, when he's not flying around the Empire State Building saving damsels in distress, he's sky-diving or running triathalons..gtf you sad tw@ts, just trade and stfu..

As for DOM/Level 2 yeah great...and?
Click to expand...

+1 :LOL: :LOL:
 
DionysusToast said:
Why is it so hard to understand.

The fact that they play tricks means it's worth THEIR while playing them. You just didn't know the game. You got played. This does not mean it's not worthwhile.
Click to expand...

I tried it for some time without too much success (orders manipulation could be misleading). IMO The charts are more reliable (as a visual record of the actual trades).

Anyway my view is pragmatic - if something (Level 2) works for you, continue doing it.(y)
 
DionysusToast said:
Why is it so hard to understand.

The fact that they play tricks means it's worth THEIR while playing them. You just didn't know the game. You got played. This does not mean it's not worthwhile.
Click to expand...

Everyone is his own man, DT. We must all know that this is a jungle and not trust anyone. I get along very well without orderflow and I intend to trade in much the same way as I have always done while I am able to do it. This orderflow business isn't new but, lately, it has taken a lot of interest on these threads. I believe that it is the continual search for a new type of trading by those who have not found their way, yet. After a while, orderflow will become old hat and something else will come along.

When you get to my age you'll be questioning whatever that "something" is. You'll see! :D
 
Black Swan said:
IMHO one of the best frames of mind to get into as a whale 5hit day trader is knowing your place in the food chain. Heh, be positive about the positive expectancy of your edge, but all this happy clappy whoop whoop bu115hit drives me mad...and just look at the state of that website, you could do better using moonfruit or wild-apricot...

Even in that section I highlighted the beaut manages to make out he's great with women, when he's not flying around the Empire State Building saving damsels in distress, he's sky-diving or running triathalons..gtf you sad tw@ts, just trade and stfu..
Click to expand...

yes, but is he Avoiding Whipsaws By The Grace Of God
 
brasil2000 said:
T3live is an proprietary trading firm base in New York.


Below is an screen shot of their virtual trading floor on Thursday 28 october, the top stocks window is the 15 top stocks they day trade and the profits they made in each stock.They use to have an leaderboard showing you how much the top 10 trader made in realtime. I would say this is an below average day trading day for the T3live team.


TRADING PROFILE OF MIKE LEE
http://www.t3live.com/profile/profile.php?userid=60



virtual trading floor

Listen to Live Trader Radios and Watch Screen Cameras Trader radios and screen cameras allow you to listen LIVE to successful traders during each trading day while you watch their screens. Watch and listen for the next great opportunity in the markets and guidance on how to execute. The VTF also includes daily leaderboards, action alerts, and newsfeeds.
Click to expand...

They are just spies/propaganda outlet for GS. :)
 
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