9/11 - The Third Tower

This is a discussion on 9/11 - The Third Tower within the The Foyer forums, part of the Off the Grid category; Here is a little video of steven jones talking about his theory on molten metals evidence. He says this was ...

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Old Jul 4, 2008, 2:43pm   #61
 
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Here is a little video of steven jones talking about his theory on molten metals evidence. He says this was not considered by the officials in their reports for some reason. Although President Bush stated a full investigation would happen in order to capture the culprits.

So what causes the molten metal ? Evident also in the twin towers ?

Also why are the government not concerned with the evdidence of the buildings actual collapse, failing to investigate or disclose any findings in the reports? To me ignoring that is not meeting with the presidents mandate of a full investigation which he wanted.

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Old Jul 4, 2008, 3:12pm   #62
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Here is a little video of steven jones talking about his theory on molten metals evidence. He says this was not considered by the officials in their reports for some reason. Although President Bush stated a full investigation would happen in order to capture the culprits.

So what causes the molten metal ? Evident also in the twin towers ?

Also why are the government not concerned with the evdidence of the buildings actual collapse, failing to investigate or disclose any findings in the reports? To me ignoring that is not meeting with the presidents mandate of a full investigation which he wanted.

Come on CB, you must be having a laugh.
Its going to take a bit more than a dodgy youtube video from some creepy DR of physics with over 20 years of peer reviewed research to convince me.
All this "evidence" you present, is just unofficial blogging clap trap. If there was any truth to any of this, they'd report it officially, on the BBC news, thank you very much.
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Old Jul 4, 2008, 3:12pm   #63
 
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[QUOTE=Crap Buddist;453994 . . . I mean I'm not a Doctor, but that bloke is ??
what do we think.. ?[/QUOTE]

"Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Completely Collapse?
By Dr. Steven E. Jones
Physicist and Archaeometrist"

"But is Professor Jones qualified to create a paper which says the towers must have fallen due to explosives? He is a physics professor but what experience does Jones have in building collapse forensics? He has none. His other peer reviewed papers consist of cold fusion technology. He conducts research in nuclear fusion and solar energy. Nothing in his background would suggest he is qualified to write a civil engineering paper on the infinitely complex building collapse of the towers"

Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition Myths - Steven E. Jones - Scholars for 9/11 truth

Please . . . anyone . . . any credible, verifiable, peer - reviewed info?


CB . . . please visit Debunking 911 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition Homepage before posting any more links "prooving" the conspiriloon "evidence".
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Old Jul 4, 2008, 3:41pm   #64
 
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damn this is bad as psychology..... yes it does. no it does'nt i'll have a look. cheers for your links. but lets put this one to bed ,er or is it already?

Come on guys, ignoring everything for the mo. does anybody think 3 buildings would/should just neatly implode into their own footprints? Why didnt WTC 7 for instance collapse at just the backside and leave the front or a wee corner standing ?

Its crazy, whats going on.... ?

thank you,
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Old Jul 4, 2008, 3:54pm   #65
 
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"But is Professor Jones qualified to create a paper which says the towers must have fallen due to explosives? He is a physics professor but what experience does Jones have in building collapse forensics? He has none. His other peer reviewed papers consist of cold fusion technology. He conducts research in nuclear fusion and solar energy. Nothing in his background would suggest he is qualified to write a civil engineering paper on the infinitely complex building collapse of the towers"
Good point. Now but why was'nt the government or the official investigators concerned with studying any of the buildings collapes ?

It seems a bit like evidence present because of that which was not done, despite a presedential mandate to carry out a complete and thorough investigation. Surely it would save a lot of conspiracy nutcases if they just presented expert reports about the buildings going through the collapse process. ?

why didnt they say gee, you know everyone freakily these look like demolition guys have gone in and blahh, blahh, footprints, V cuts on the support girders, molten steel etc.... but they aint too bothered . Why Not ?

so what they have not done only raises more questions.?

Lets get it sorted.
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Old Jul 4, 2008, 3:59pm   #66
 
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Bill.

Members of the forum I now present.

William Rodriguez janitor for 20 years present in the basement when the first explosions went off (below ground),before the first plane hit. This is his story which the government,according to him did not publish or investigate or disclose in their official reports.

Please have a look and say what you think.

Video account of the sequence of events prior to plane impact and post impact. well worth watching.

9/11 Documentaries & Videos - William Rodriguez: 9/11 Hero
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Old Jul 4, 2008, 4:37pm   #67
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There are two things that bother me about 9/11, and why I remian suspicous about the official story.

1. The pentagon. I remember watching this on the day and thinking the news crew had got it wrong and that it had ben hit by a missile not a plane. The lovely neat lawn in front of the hole in the building. I mean where exactly was the plane and the crash debris? Looking back I still can see no evidence for a plane apart from one piece of one engine. These things don't just vaporise - especially when they leave such a clean impact hole? There was CCTV apparantly of the whole thing - they released 5 frames from it - none of which show any sign of a plane.

Why would they say a plane hit it - if it didn't?

2. There is a record of the call in from a fireman who had reached the floors that had been hit by the plane to his base. Having heard this I just can't believe the towers were in any danger of collapsing on their own as the record states. He basically said there a few small fires, but it was easily containable. It just didn't sound like he was in a building that was imminately about to fall in on itself.

If anyone should be able to assess the state of the building I would say it would be a proffessional who is called to emergency situations all the time and is at the scene. Why did he basicaly say the floors hit were not too badly damaged?



So I prefer to believe my own eyes, and gut feel from evidence that I can see or hear.

Yes sure any evidence neds to be peer reviewed etc - but is all the evidence actually being considered - or have they managed to isolate and narrow focus of investigations to get the outcome wanted?

If anyone has any link showing the kind of debris a plane crash causes in the pentagon, or a link showing the firemans call in was a fake or he is a nut job then I would be happy to check that out, and possibly change my mind. Until then something stinks.

That's my 2p.
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Old Jul 4, 2008, 4:55pm   #68
 
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Yeah nice postings North.

I want to believe for the first time in history? 3 skyscrapers will implode into their own footprint,through fire damage. BUT when you have witnesses in the basement (some of them with skin hanging off their arms, and bits of their face missing) accounting for

A) explosions before the first plane hit.

and

B) These people suffered skin burns, explosion damage, in the basement.


Now we have to be open to maybe these employee's made the whole thing up and they had a skin disorder anyway, or maybe the fact that their skin was hanging off from an explosion below ground level actually might of meant, some sort of explosive charge/explosion actually happend ,which is worth thoroughly investigating?

Simple..... only how come the investigators are focused 70 floors higher ? and not at ground zero when it all kicked off according to the victims?
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Old Jul 4, 2008, 5:09pm   #69
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Spot the plane.



Click the image to open in full size.




(hint: there isn't one....)
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Old Jul 4, 2008, 6:44pm   #70
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crap Buddist View Post
. . .
William Rodriguez janitor for 20 years present in the basement when the first explosions went off (below ground),before the first plane hit. This is his story which the government,according to him did not publish or investigate or disclose in their official reports.

Please have a look and say what you think.
. . .
Ohh dear! Please please please . . .
I'll just post the conclusion about how many times this guy has told his story

" . . . And as you see in the first quote, it’s expanding with details that he can’t possibly know, like explosions occurring “before” the airliner hit. He didn’t see the impact, that’s an after-the-fact interpretation. If this were a court of law then that kind of comment would be taken out, and we’d consider only what he experienced himself.

We're also not convinced that Rodriguez could reliably tell whether an explosion occurred above, or beneath him, especially if he's talking about the elevator fireball. And as the initial flex of the building, and impact sound, would have arrived through steel around a second before sound carried through the air. Perhaps there are other explanations here than "bombs in the basement"."



With an even more comprehensive debunking here . . .
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Old Jul 4, 2008, 6:55pm   #71
 
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Good point. Now but why was'nt the government or the official investigators concerned with studying any of the buildings collapes ?
. . .
so what they have not done only raises more questions.?
Excellent example (although not saying it's deliberate CB) of how it's easy to aquire the conspiriloon mindset.

Firstly you aknowledge in passim that the source of your speculation isn't in any way, shape or form, remotely qualified.

Secondly you suggest that absense of evidence is evidence of absense. From my point 6 made in post 51 . . .

6. Inability to tell good evidence from bad. Conspiracy theorists have no place for peer-review, for scientific knowledge, for the respectability of sources. The fact that a claim has been made by anybody, anywhere, is enough for them to reproduce it and demand that the questions it raises be answered, as if intellectual enquiry were a matter of responding to every rumour. While they do this, of course, they will claim to have "open minds" and abuse the sceptics for apparently lacking same.

Bottom line . . . show me verifiable proof and I'll believe it.

Actually, here's one for all you "truth seekers" . . . what do you think actually happened and what proof can you demonstrate to proove your theory. Don't attempt to cite supposed inconsistancies in the official version . . . tell me what YOU believe and proove it.
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Old Jul 4, 2008, 7:17pm   #72
 
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Originally Posted by A Dashing Blade View Post
Ohh dear! Please please please . . .
I'll just post the conclusion about how many times this guy has told his story

" . . . And as you see in the first quote, it’s expanding with details that he can’t possibly know, like explosions occurring “before” the airliner hit. He didn’t see the impact, that’s an after-the-fact interpretation. If this were a court of law then that kind of comment would be taken out, and we’d consider only what he experienced himself.

We're also not convinced that Rodriguez could reliably tell whether an explosion occurred above, or beneath him, especially if he's talking about the elevator fireball. And as the initial flex of the building, and impact sound, would have arrived through steel around a second before sound carried through the air. Perhaps there are other explanations here than "bombs in the basement"."



With an even more comprehensive debunking here . . .
More disinfo from "A Dashing Blade" who is muddying the waters again.

Now referencing 911myths dot com and 911stories dot googlepages dot com

Debunkers highlight hoaxes, ignore best evidence
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Old Jul 4, 2008, 7:31pm   #73
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fibonelli View Post
More disinfo from "A Dashing Blade" who is muddying the waters again. Now referencing 911myths dot com and 911stories dot googlepages dot com

Debunkers highlight hoaxes, ignore best evidence
Apols Fib, I don't quite see where my cited critisisms (fully verifiable CNN transcripts) of Rodriguez's (changing) story are refuted in your source (serious). Please could you produce direct links?
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Old Jul 4, 2008, 7:48pm   #74
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Here is the transcript of the firefighter who is on the floor where the plane hit a few minutes before it collapses. This is where the fires are so hot that they caused the whole structure of the building to effectively melt.

9:52 a.m.

Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven to Battalion Seven Alpha."

"Freddie, come on over. Freddie, come on over by us."

Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven ... Ladder 15, we've got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines. Radio that, 78th floor numerous 10-45 Code Ones."

Ladder 15: "What stair are you in, Orio?"

Battalion Seven Aide: "Seven Alpha to lobby command post."

Ladder Fifteen: "Fifteen to Battalion Seven."

Battalion Seven Chief: "... Ladder 15."

Ladder 15: "Chief, what stair you in?"

Battalion Seven Chief: "South stairway Adam, South Tower."

Ladder 15: "Floor 78?"

Battalion Seven Chief: "Ten-four, numerous civilians, we gonna need two engines up here."

Ladder 15: "Alright ten-four, we're on our way."



Dashing Blade. Why do we need to have a theory that we can prove? Why is it not enough to disbelieve and worry that we are being sold a story? I don't think we will ever know the truth.

If we go along your path and don't question then we will constantly be fed any old **** the governments think we will buy in order for us agree with their intentions.

Look at the case of WMD's. Lies - absolutely known as such by the Govt, used only to create panic so that they could justify the invasion. After the event it doesn't really matter that we find out they were lies - people stop caring. That is wrong - no question.

If you want to live in a world where reality is what the Govt and Media decide for you then fine (it's a lot less scary that way). I prefer to maintain my sceptecism of anything that has an outcome that benefits those telling the story more than anyone else.
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Old Jul 4, 2008, 8:09pm   #75
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For completeness here is the rest of the tape transcript. It shows that there is also another crew on floor 77 at this point - with the intention and access to go above 78 onto floor 79. It also shows that the firefighters are planning on only using two men to put the fires out - an already have the lines out ready to do so.



9:52 a.m.
Battalion Seven Aide: "Seven Alpha for Battalion Seven."

Battalion Seven Chief: "South tower, Steve, south tower, tell them...Tower one. Battalion Seven to Ladder 15.

"Fifteen."

Battalion Seven Chief: "I'm going to need two of your firefighters Adam stairway to knock down two fires. We have a house line stretched we could use some water on it, knock it down, kay."

Ladder 15: "Alright ten-four, we're coming up the stairs. We're on 77 now in the B stair, I'll be right to you."

Ladder 15 Roof: "Fifteen Roof to 15. We're on 71. We're coming right up."





9:57 a.m.
"Division 3 ... lobby command, to the Fieldcom command post."

Battalion Seven Chief: "Operations Tower One to floor above Battalion Nine."

Battalion Nine Chief: "Battalion Nine to command post."

Battalion Seven Operations Tower One: "Battalion Seven Operations Tower One to Battalion Nine, need you on floor above 79. We have access stairs going up to 79, kay."

Battalion Nine: "Alright, I'm on my way up Orio."

Ladder 15 OV: "Fifteen OV to Fifteen."

Ladder 15: "Go ahead Fifteen OV, Battalion Seven Operations Tower One."

Ladder 15 OV: "Stuck in the elevator, in the elevator shaft, you're going to have to get a difference elevator. We're chopping through the wall to get out."

Battalion Seven Chief: "Radio lobby command with that Tower One."

9:58 a.m.

Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven to Ladder 15."
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