Human population explosion. Solutions please.

Paying extra tax to help improve population control.

  • Yes,happy to pay a tax that will improve population control and quality of living for poorer nations

    Votes: 2 40.0%
  • Essentially, NO. I'm aware the problem exists ,but someone else please deal with it.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • CB. Look, the world knows its cheaper to let nature run its course with these things.

    Votes: 3 60.0%
  • Funnily enough, if we paid for the solution ,it would be cheaper & deliver.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    5

Crap Buddist

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worldpop.2007.gif


http://www.optimumpopulation.org/opt.earth.html

WHAT CAN BE DONE?
5. ALL COUNTRIES CAN FORMULATE POPULATION STABILISATION AND REDUCTION POLICIES


This markets topping out, due for a slump ?
 
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http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2006/030406massculling.htm
.
Industrialization itself levels out population trends and even despite this world population models routinely show that the earth's population will level out at 9 billion in 2050 and slowly decline after that. "The population of the most developed countries will remain virtually unchanged at 1.2 billion until 2050," states a United Nations report. Conservation International's own study revealed that 46% of the earth's surface was an untouched wilderness, that is land areas not including sea..
 
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Nothing can be done. Have you listened to the Reith Lectures on BBC 4, this year, featuring Sachs.

He is very optimistic. I'm not, at all. The problem with my point of view, and I admit it, is that if we do not try to do something, we are putting our heads on the block without a fight.

Nevertheless, human greed and self preservation will not allow us to trust that others will do the same as we do. Right now, we are waking up, but I fear that we expect others to make sacrifices, while we are not. Where I say "We", I mean all of us, worldwide

Split
 
Hi Jtrader re: your post on prisonplanet.

This smells of sheer desperation and I fear that nature will do that for us, but only partially. Starvation and a world shortage of water are, already, working on this but the population is still increasing so, sooner or later, these shortages will extend to other over populated areas. Food will get scarcer and more expensive and wars will be fought over water. The BBC today, treated rather lightheartedly, the fact that wood for fencing is almost impossible to get in some areas and that some house owners are having their palings thieved. That is what we are coming to and these shortages will become more evident as time passes. While the West can stumble along giving people higher wages so that they can buy ever more expensive food, other countries will sell to us and poorer countries will not be able to import what they need.

This is what comes of being a member of an ever increasing population on a planet with dwindling resources. With the threat of these terrible deseases, such as aids and bird flu, doesn't it seem laughable that the world is worried about the threat that nuclear energy poses?

Split
 
Solution

worldpop.2007.gif


http://www.optimumpopulation.org/opt.earth.html

WHAT CAN BE DONE?
5. ALL COUNTRIES CAN FORMULATE POPULATION STABILISATION AND REDUCTION POLICIES


This markets topping out, due for a slump ?

WHAT CAN BE DONE?

1) Print EVERY e-mail you get, even spam
2) Leave lights on in empty rooms
3) Fill UP your kettle when making only 1 cup of tea
4) Fly more often, especially on low cost airlines
5) Drive a 4x4
6) Put plastic, paper and cardboard in the "bad" bin.
7) Take your jumper off and turn UP the thermostat instead.

Reverse the above once population has been reduced to acceptable levels
 
Here's my tongue in cheek solution to the "alleged" over population scam.

Cull the following
1. Believers of this scam
2. AGW believers
3. Fascists

Leaving plenty of room for everyone else with fair access to land, water and money. :cheesy:
 
Here's my tongue in cheek solution to the "alleged" over population scam.

Cull the following
1. Believers of this scam
2. AGW believers
3. Fascists

Leaving plenty of room for everyone else with fair access to land, water and money. :cheesy:

fibonelli,

why do think this is a scam? (agree on your two other points)

generally:
before any decisions are made, we need to quantify the issues;
for example, not all people are equal: the poor in developing countries have very few resources, and are possibly leaving a small carbon footprint, whereas people in the developed countires, europe and usa, use a disproportionate amount of the worlds resources.
so, each american culled could mean 5-10 poor people getting to live well. kill all americans, 300 million, and you may help to spread those resources more fairly, and give 1-3 billion a better standard of life.

if developed countries have a fall-off of population growth, fast-tracking developing countries into better life could mean fewer births at some point.

its not how many people there are, but how we use/squander the resources between us.
 
Another world war will sort everything out...Sadly though it will probably mean that we have no planet left.

Problem solved!
 
ok so if theres 2 billion fertile females & their partners, why not tax (ongoing) the worlds richest nations to raise a couple of trilion dollars to pay for

an allowance (to be used for funding self sufficiency programs) so they do not reproduce as much , just have 1 or 2 children, that will actually stand a better chance of surviving because of improved quality of living.

That has to be the way forward doesnt it ? what would the extra tax burden be to raise a couple of trillion across the developed world.

and do we support this idea, I feel a poll is required.

please have a look.
 
CB,

You could tax those in the world's richest nations who have more than say 2 children. Apparently a rich child costs the equivalent of up to 200 poor ones in terms of resource, people and planet abuse. Though I doubt you'd be in power for long. :) Then do something helpful to poorer ones with the money.

But I don't follow why an allowance to promote self-sufficiency would encourage moderate reproduction. Are you saying desperately poor families have lots of kids at the moment simply because it improves their chances of overall survival? Like a dandelion on some stony ground .... if they throw out enough seeds and 1 or 2 may by a miracle live to repeat the process. What a depressing thought. But it doesn't sound right to me. From a survival point of view, surely it would make more sense to have fewer children when resources are very scarce?
Though I see that in case of rife disease the situation is less clear, perhaps there would be safety in numbers in this case.

In my ignorance I thought it was lack of contraception (plus a fair amount of brainwashing of the god doesn't like the pill variety) that is the main cause of profligate breeding. Perhaps some of the allowance could be used for giving that out for free, thus sparing several children from unpleasant, preventable fates.
 
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fibonelli,

why do think this is a scam? (agree on your two other points)

Hi Trendie,

Because in my opinion there is sufficient productive land available (needs to be shared out!).

With fair access to water and money, this will enable land to become productive on a self sustaining basis.
 
CB,

You could tax those in the world's richest nations who have more than say 2 children. Apparently a rich child costs the equivalent of up to 200 poor ones in terms of resource, people and planet abuse. Though I doubt you'd be in power for long. :) Then do something helpful to poorer ones with the money.

But I don't follow why an allowance to promote self-sufficiency would encourage moderate reproduction. Are you saying desperately poor families have lots of kids at the moment simply because it improves their chances of overall survival? Like a dandelion on some stony ground .... if they throw out enough seeds and 1 or 2 may by a miracle live to repeat the process. What a depressing thought. But it doesn't sound right to me. From a survival point of view, surely it would make more sense to have fewer children when resources are very scarce?
Though I see that in case of rife disease the situation is less clear, perhaps there would be safety in numbers in this case.

In my ignorance I thought it was lack of contraception (plus a fair amount of brainwashing of the god doesn't like the pill variety) that is the main cause of profligate breeding. Perhaps some of the allowance could be used for giving that out for free, thus sparing several children from unpleasant, preventable fates.

ahhh, frugi, but I belive you are entirely wrong here.

it is the infant mortality being so high that means parents HAVE to have so many children, as so few children survive the first 5 years of life, succumbing to a myriad of preventable diseases, mostly due to contaminated water.
(imagine a UK where half the children die. if you want 2 healthy children, statistically you would need to have 4 to ensure 2 survive into adulthood. I am not going to mention the trauma of KNOWING you would be burying some of your children. This is a daily experience in most parts of the world.)

also, they dont have councils, or a welfare state, so their ONLY resource is a fit and healthy family who will look after them in their old-age, and provide food and help.
they cant afford expensive tractors, so people again are the only cheap resource to provide assistance.
(this is tragically the reason where girl-babies are killed in favour of boy-babies, as boys are seen as an asset in the fields, and girls seen as a drain on resources. This kind of mentality has resulted in some parts of rural India where the boy/girl ratio is so distorted, many men cannot find brides!)

this is why tackling infant mortality is a major component. the reproduction slow-down will (mostly) take care of itself. we only have fewer children here, because child-deaths are so low, in a developed country.
(there will some cultural aspects to tackle as well. but India again is a good example. Educated, middle-class couples with access to good healthcare have (generally) fewer children.)
 
CB,

You could tax those in the world's richest nations who have more than say 2 children. Apparently a rich child costs the equivalent of up to 200 poor ones in terms of resource, people and planet abuse. Though I doubt you'd be in power for long. :) Then do something helpful to poorer ones with the money.

But I don't follow why an allowance to promote self-sufficiency would encourage moderate reproduction. Are you saying desperately poor families have lots of kids at the moment simply because it improves their chances of overall survival? Like a dandelion on some stony ground .... if they throw out enough seeds and 1 or 2 may by a miracle live to repeat the process. What a depressing thought. But it doesn't sound right to me. From a survival point of view, surely it would make more sense to have fewer children when resources are very scarce?
Though I see that in case of rife disease the situation is less clear, perhaps there would be safety in numbers in this case.

In my ignorance I thought it was lack of contraception (plus a fair amount of brainwashing of the god doesn't like the pill variety) that is the main cause of profligate breeding. Perhaps some of the allowance could be used for giving that out for free, thus sparing several children from unpleasant, preventable fates.

hmm yes, I think thats the way nature works.(if you threaten a plant with its survival ,control its conditions, it will go into flower to produce more seeds ,humans the same ? ) If infant mortality is 50/60 % sorry dont know the exact ,but guessing, then it makes sense to sow many seeds ,that 1 or 2 may gain a hold to grow. Now I did type contraception funding, but scartched it, thinking o.k. if death rates ,due to resources (food,shelter,improved health as a result) being available, then a more considered family control mindset might take hold, as it has in the west. So yes ,contraception after improved facilities will need to be available .

hmm but they are a long way off having the luxury off discussing contraception morals, a' la Kilroy Silk day time TV.

We get payments offered, an allowance to continue to breed in the U.K. so maybe an allowance to keep breeding in check in areas that need it is the solution, but whilst the catch 22 of scant resources prevails , then i can see the ironic sense in a few out of many might make it.

I think its something like 30,000 infants per day, die because of hunger.

But why not a humanitarian Tax imposed, maybe even make it optional, but all tax payers will pay for the administration and the controlled ethical distrubition costs of resources, so that every dollar counts.

OK so we get charity ,donations, concerts all trying to bang home the message now and then, that makes public news. But if the governements get more involved, with a humanitarian tax deduction showing on pay slips alongside. N.I. and Income tax then I think a more sustained progress will take hold and gather a natural momentum.

As a by product of this, the entire worlds psyche towards humanitarian issues may be more prominent,leading to postive and sustained change for the better. Governments have the influence to effect change, so why dont they. ?
 
I suspect you are right trendie & CB. I'd thought initially of (clean) water, food and shelter only (in terms of sharing it out) and then half way through my naive post realised that disease probably has a much larger effect than I thought. Indeed, the depressingly simple dehydration seems to be the most deadly. Your other points also make perfect sense.

Of course other species can get on with this dismal progeny lottery with the benefit of not having to think about it (the blind, pitiless but effective biological imperative works alone) whereas humans have a horrid moral dilemma to face up to: e.g do I have 4 kids of which I know two will probably die of dehydration, 1 will die of hunger later and the last will spend his life incessantly toiling to keep him and me alive then repeat the whole sorry process OR do I sacrifice myself and probably my partner by saying no this cruel cycle has gone on long enough and I'm not having any at all? Not a choice I'd wish on anyone.

Directing the majority of this imaginary money towards solving the problems you chaps mention probably would as you say mitigate the pop growth. We should do it regardless of that, of course. However I suspect contraception / education would need to be made available too, in order to help preserve the solution created and slow the growth further to a truly sustainable rate.

Re stats I think the worst infant mortality is around 20%, in Angola, but technically this is kids under 1 not under 5. I dread to think what the latter may be.
 
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The world's richest nations will not do anything to decrease the quality of their lives. They feel sorry for the poor but not to that extent. Most of these nations are democratic, which means that their leaders must take care of the voters. It is a fact that birth control is providing a decrease in population for these richer people, the reason being that the cost of having children is increasing. So the reason is threefold, (1) for selfish reasons, so that they have more income to enjoy, (2) bring one child up on an affordable standard of living or (3) adoption.

On the other hand, men have been offered a free radio in return for sterilisation in India and that does not seem to have been a good solution. The population is on the increase, there.

The poor people have babies because of the sex. It is one of the few pleasures that they have and the woman are always pregnant, that is the truth of the matter. The babies are born hungry and die hungry. I see no hope for the majority of them and small wonder that the fittest try to come to Europe while they are still strong enough to make the journey.

You are right, it is a depressing thought and one which wars are unlike to resolve. In WWII 40 million died. That is one year's population growth. I believe that the world's leaders ,and that goes for the current Islamic ones, as well, will see that war is no solution. It is obvious that the general attitude would be "If we go, we all go".
 
I would have thought there's precious little hope of humankind providing a solution and - like global warming - we'll have to rely on nature to bring it about. Nature has a habit of providing balance even when it requires some catastrophic event ( look at the lemmings :cheesy: ).
 

Thanks for your posts jtrader, I know most don't believe with what is going on in the world. People tend to stay in their comfort zone, anything out side the zone they tend to ignore it and most of the posters on her are ingnorning your posts, because its outside the comfort zone.

The same applies with trading. The money is made with SIZE and not a method that makes money 90% of the time.I would say 98% trade in a comfort zone and this stops them from making money worth talking about.
 
Laptop1
Very true, I like that. However, I'm not prepared to stick my neck out and be part of the 2%. It's a question of trying to stay on top of the heap but there's not much room up there and it certainly is not for widows and orphans

Split
 
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