The Jockorendum

Pat494 · Mar 18, 2017

Mr Brown has already pledged to join forces with Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale to campaign for a people's constitutional convention to look at how power is distributed across the nations and regions of the UK.
Ms Dugdale confirmed her party would vote against the SNP's demand for a fresh referendum when it is debated at the Scottish Parliament next week.
She said: "Our call for a reformed UK is about meeting the demand for change. One message from the independence and EU referendums was that people wanted more control over their lives.
"That's why Labour's plan for a people's constitutional convention and a federal UK will transform where political and economic power will lie in our country."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39309133

Better togethor

sminicooper · Mar 18, 2017

Pat494 said:
Mr Brown has already pledged to join forces with Scottish Labour leader Kezia Dugdale to campaign for a people's constitutional convention to look at how power is distributed across the nations and regions of the UK.
Ms Dugdale confirmed her party would vote against the SNP's demand for a fresh referendum when it is debated at the Scottish Parliament next week.
She said: "Our call for a reformed UK is about meeting the demand for change. One message from the independence and EU referendums was that people wanted more control over their lives.
"That's why Labour's plan for a people's constitutional convention and a federal UK will transform where political and economic power will lie in our country."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39309133

Better togethor

Interesting development. I wonder what "Labour's plan for a people's constitutional convention and a federal UK " means?

I've long thought that rather than putting up with the Scots' demand for independence we should just give it to them together with their worthless oil and let them fund their own subsidies. I gather there's now even a movement in Wales for independence – we could hand over Charles to them and he could show them how to live off sheep and homeopathic remedies. Then the rest of us could get on with Brexit.

Pat494 · Mar 18, 2017

If they insist on going it alone then there will be likely tariffs on all their products going south to Europe as well as their biggest trading partner (England).
The whole idea may be to just scare the Westminster old fogeys to give them Federal status.
The thirst for power seems to have gone to the head of young Nicola. It gives bigger highs than crack.

sminicooper · Mar 18, 2017

Pat494 said:
If they insist on going it alone then there will be likely tariffs on all their products going south to Europe as well as their biggest trading partner (England).
The whole idea may be to just scare the Westminster old fogeys to give them Federal status.
The thirst for power seems to have gone to the head of young Nicola.

Realistically, I can't see the Scots as a whole (who are a canny lot) going it alone because it would be financial doomsville unless they managed to extract from Westminster vast amounts of ongoing subsidies/handouts – and I can't see Lady Theresa agreeing to that. Nicola (wee Krankie) Sturgeon seems to be letting her confusion over independent Scottish EU membership and currency overwhelm her burning desire to be free of Westminster. I don't think she's quite as smart as Alex Salmond who may well be still pulling the strings. The SNP also no longer has a Scottish parliament majority and it will be interesting to see at the next election whether they've now passed their peak.

Atilla · Mar 18, 2017

I think there is something quite strange and stupid going on with politicians and the people in Europe and the US. Especially Europe.

There are elections and referendums and calls for more referendums all over the place.

Whilst criticising and belittling Russian and Chinese model of government rule US has started going down the road of becoming more like it. eg. Trump declaring anything said against him as fake news. Wanting the clear the swamp and so forth. This recent story on the BBC site reads like a James Bond novel but represents at a high level party political power plays at the top. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/Murder_lucky_hotel The Chinese and Russians are masters of orchestrating public opinion and news control.

Then there is the bigger Brexit. UK and EU union, unity and brake up talk.

Re: Scotland it reminds me of their strategy to invade England during the Black Plague in the 14th century. It was felt 'God' was punishing the evil English for their misdeeds and this was an ideal opportune moment to attack.

Likewise, the second referendum call now is about as daft as one can get. I think they certainly should have one for sure yes, but now. No Way!!!

Politicians should be patient and simply wait. If Brexit works out stay in the Union. If it goes tits up have the referendum and leave. Then the interests of the people and Scotland will crystalize before their very eyes. People can make informed decisions. Right now there is just politics. Nicola Sturgeon whilst trying to get foot in the door on negotiations has upped the ante in a negative way.

Similarly, to go for Brexit, whilst majore EU elections in progress and not delaying for 6 months is also just crass conduct and behaviour imo. As if life and negotiations aren't complex enough, let's throw in a change in government to the stew.

Politicians in haste to flex muscle. Bunch of morons, full of brown stuff.

Splitlink · Mar 18, 2017

sminicooper said:
Interesting development. I wonder what "Labour's plan for a people's constitutional convention and a federal UK " means?

I've long thought that rather than putting up with the Scots' demand for independence we should just give it to them together with their worthless oil and let them fund their own subsidies. I gather there's now even a movement in Wales for independence – we could hand over Charles to them and he could show them how to live off sheep and homeopathic remedies. Then the rest of us could get on with Brexit.

Reminds me of the story of the couple on their honeymoon.

Before getting into bed

1. She took off her wig

2. Removed her false teeth.

3. Took out her glass eye.

4.Took off artificial leg.

When they got into bed he said " Don't bother. Just unscrew it and pass it over"

Pat494 · Mar 18, 2017

Oh for politics.
You need NO qualifications. Just a big mouth and an appetite to copy other people's ideas that seem to be popular. Currently referendums are in vogue. Common sense is a non starter.
As someone said " the scum floats to the top !"

:whistling

counter_violent · Mar 18, 2017

Atilla said:
I think there is something quite strange and stupid going on with politicians and the people in Europe and the US. Especially Europe.

There are elections and referendums and calls for more referendums all over the place.

Whilst criticising and belittling Russian and Chinese model of government rule US has started going down the road of becoming more like it. eg. Trump declaring anything said against him as fake news. Wanting the clear the swamp and so forth. This recent story on the BBC site reads like a James Bond novel but represents at a high level party political power plays at the top. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/Murder_lucky_hotel The Chinese and Russians are masters of orchestrating public opinion and news control.

Then there is the bigger Brexit. UK and EU union, unity and brake up talk.

Re: Scotland it reminds me of their strategy to invade England during the Black Plague in the 14th century. It was felt 'God' was punishing the evil English for their misdeeds and this was an ideal opportune moment to attack.

Likewise, the second referendum call now is about as daft as one can get. I think they certainly should have one for sure yes, but now. No Way!!!

Politicians should be patient and simply wait. If Brexit works out stay in the Union. If it goes tits up have the referendum and leave. Then the interests of the people and Scotland will crystalize before their very eyes. People can make informed decisions. Right now there is just politics. Nicola Sturgeon whilst trying to get foot in the door on negotiations has upped the ante in a negative way.

Similarly, to go for Brexit, whilst majore EU elections in progress and not delaying for 6 months is also just crass conduct and behaviour imo. As if life and negotiations aren't complex enough, let's throw in a change in government to the stew.

Politicians in haste to flex muscle. Bunch of morons, full of brown stuff.

SNP's call for independence is simply a poker game. Keep raising the stakes on a non topic in order to deflect attention away from their complete mismanagement whilst in govt. Everybody in Scotland knows it. SNP are about to take a fall.

Atilla · Mar 18, 2017

counter_violent said:
SNP's call for independence is simply a poker game. Keep raising the stakes on a non topic in order to deflect attention away from their complete mismanagement whilst in govt. Everybody in Scotland knows it. SNP are about to take a fall.

That's just election politics though. Ordinary stuff between Labour, Tory and SNP parties.

Call for independence is a whole different ball game. I reckon she's miffed about not being party to negotiations. Even the British people and parliament has got the short brush off from the TM and Brexiteers so I doubt they'll be considered positively in any light.

Inquisitor · Mar 19, 2017

Have you considered that you and others who continue to label many of your countrymen as "Brexiters" or "Remainers" does nothing to heal the divisions that the UK is now facing when it needs an holistic approach moving forward and into the future?

A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand and that means that if Brexit fails it will be more to do with the divisiveness within our own country more than anything else IMHO.

sminicooper · Mar 19, 2017

Inquisitor said:
Have you considered that you and others who continue to label many of your countrymen as "Brexiters" or "Remainers" does nothing to heal the divisions that the UK is now facing when it needs an holistic approach moving forward and into the future?

A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand and that means that if Brexit fails it will be more to do with the divisiveness within our own country more than anything else IMHO.

Unfortunately, that would be to disregard reality.

dbphoenix · Mar 19, 2017

Not unlike Harry and Voldemort sitting down over tea and working out the future of the Wizarding World.

Signalcalc · Mar 19, 2017

The country has been divided for decades already as is proved by politicians such as the London mayor, sturgeon and the shenanigans of NI.

Pat494 · Mar 19, 2017

Our differences can be a strength.
Less hide bound by 1 dogma.

Mr. Charts · Mar 20, 2017

Scottish " independence " has always been a matter of the heart, not of reason. After Brexit it's difficult to imagine Belgium or Spain wanting to encourage secessionism by allowing an economically lame duck into the EU to drain its coffers with the huge support they would need to survive. And how galling that Scotland would decline the Euro and want to keep the £ !
I suspect most Scots would prefer to sail away in the strong ship of the UK rather than cast themselves adrift from the ship in a leaking and sinking lifeboat and hope to be rescued from the unforgiving North Sea by a passing EU trawler.
They have 56 MPs in Westminster. Do they really want to have that representation diluted out of existence in an unelected European Commission where they would have one vote out of 28? And do they understand that one vote is constrained by the oath of office to do what is "best" for the EU, NOT their individual state?
Sturgeon encourages a sense of victimhood and deprivation in Scotland, even though they are not only heavily subsidised by the English tax payer but sell the majority of their products to the rest of the UK, not the EU.

Pat494 · Mar 20, 2017

Together we rose to the very top to be numero uno in the world pecking order.
Years of hopeless leadership and 2 jealous nations either side and now we amount to mere nuisance value.
America is really an over grown, clapped out banana republic who can't win wars and the Russians have no principles worth mentioning.
To be bossed by either is not a pleasant scenario really.

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