Democracy. Is it worth defending ?

Pat494

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I never really thought about democracy much until recent years. It always seemed muddled and confused.
However as I see the Far Right Wing parties gathering strength in Europe, the USA and Asia I really do fear that if they get into power by being elected they may well disregard the rule of law etc. to gain a tighter hold on power.
In fact once elected they may well use repression to knock out their political oppositions and refuse to hold new elections at the end of their term.

Churchill once famously said that democracy was a pretty poor system but no one has come up with a better one. What do you say ?
 
I suspect that what's happening in the US will serve as an example to Western Europe and help defeat LePen, Wilders, etc.
 
It certainly worries me that so many are disenchanted with a system that guarantees their liberty and that the bastion of democracy is in the hands of a fellow like Trump.
 
They're not disenchanted with a system that guarantees their liberty but rather a system that allows the .01 to screw them so easily. But they may need help focusing on the correct target.
 
They're not disenchanted with a system that guarantees their liberty but rather a system that allows the .01 to screw them so easily. But they may need help focusing on the correct target.

Which is ?
 
Democracy is an illusion just like religion it's a human construct designed to collect tax and make some people very wealthy.

The evolution of human society may eventually find something better, but evolution is slow. The next system will take thousands of years to emerge and will be just as fragile as the one we have now.

In the meantime, defending what we have now is worth it, if nothing else but to keep the religious hoards from imposing their own form of rule.

What I see happening in America is the continuation of a modern day Christian crusade, which is not the same as is happening in Europe, which doesn't appear to be as overtly based on religion.
 
Democracy is an illusion just like religion it's a human construct designed to collect tax and make some people very wealthy.

Depends on the type of democracy. The US is a Federal Republic. The word "democracy" doesn't appear anywhere in the Declaration or the Constitution. Democracy can work fine if it is at least a constitutional democracy.

What I see happening in America is the continuation of a modern day Christian crusade, which is not the same as is happening in Europe, which doesn't appear to be as overtly based on religion.

Actually it is only coincidentally about Christianity. Republicans learned long ago that they could depend on the votes of three segments of our society which are "one-issue" segments: guns, abortion, and minorities. These segments "show up", even in mid-terms, and as long as the Republicans cater to them, they needn't worry about being re-elected.
 
Here in the UK we adhere to the principle of the independence of the law from the politicians. I note that the founding father's seemed to have overlooked this important principle in the US. Even the appointments of new Supreme Court judges is up to The President. Apparently the split is 4/4 on political lines. With 1 more to be decided.
What at first glance seem to be a small point could turn out to be crucial. Far from it for a foreigner to suggest improvements but........
 
The President nominates, but the Senate reserves the right to confirm: "Advise and Consent". When the President and Senators are adults, this works well. Otherwise . . .
 
The President nominates, but the Senate reserves the right to confirm: "Advise and Consent". When the President and Senators are adults, this works well. Otherwise . . .

As your political system has undemocratically given Trump the Presidency and the Republicans control the Senate it looks like he has no problems in getting his man in there then.

Don't you think The Constitution could do with some updates ?
 
I can see why some people despaired of democracy. What they probably do not yet comprehend is that autocracy etc. are far far worse.
Even Europe has nearly forgotten how awful the extremists like the Communists and the Nazis were. Brilliant propaganda of lies and half truths coupled with brutal suppression worked then but hopefully won't work now.
 
As your political system has undemocratically given Trump the Presidency and the Republicans control the Senate it looks like he has no problems in getting his man in there then.

Don't you think The Constitution could do with some updates ?

Trump was elected democratically. Whether or not voters were manipulated is another matter.

How would you update the Constitution?
 
I can see why some people despaired of democracy.

The losers always despair. However, we have the press and the law. These will help to ensure that America works its way through this.

If nothing else, the American people are getting much-needed lessons in Civics.
 
Trump was elected democratically. Whether or not voters were manipulated is another matter.

How would you update the Constitution?

1.I would reduce the powers of the President. No more executive Orders. Make the President's role more a friendly Head of State for visiting dignatories to visit.
2.The leader of the larger party in the House of Reps would have some power but only with the voted permission of both Houses.
3.Scrap the 5th Amendment - too many crooks evade justice.
4.Make the Legal executive completely independent of the President/Government.
5. The candidate with the most votes wins the election. Not the electoral college votes.

How about that for starters ? Guaranteeing liberty etc.
 
Not a bad idea to have the candidates vetted for sanity, commitment to democracy, law and order etc before and during the Presidency.

The 18th century Founding Fathers made the error of thinking that future Presidential candidates would ALL be reasonable rational people and that the people would reject the weird and wacky.
 
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I can see why some people despaired of democracy. What they probably do not yet comprehend is that autocracy etc. are far far worse.
Even Europe has nearly forgotten how awful the extremists like the Communists and the Nazis were. Brilliant propaganda of lies and half truths coupled with brutal suppression worked then but hopefully won't work now.

There is an alternative. Artificial intelligence. Get the human behavior out of government and let the computer decide budget, foreign policy, healthcare etc.
The bureaucrats can handle holiday celebrations. It sounds crazy at first but when you really think about it democracy is outdated and we have all these super computers not doing anything except trying to design weapons and spy on other nations.
 
we have to take human behavior out of government. Humans are corrupt, most at least. Only serve their self interest and ultimately try to game every loophole. Computers on the other hand do exactly what you tell it to do in the most efficient manner. The security controls required would be mind numbing but it could be done.
 
There is an alternative. Artificial intelligence. Get the human behavior out of government and let the computer decide budget, foreign policy, healthcare etc.
The bureaucrats can handle holiday celebrations. It sounds crazy at first but when you really think about it democracy is outdated and we have all these super computers not doing anything except trying to design weapons and spy on other nations.

And what about the Terminators? :)
 
And what about the Terminators? :)

we have to start slow. Let the systems only deal with things related to numbers with bureaucrats still doing their inefficient tasks. Then it can go on to foreign policy with game theory algos. Matter of fact the nash equilibrium can be used in almost every department education, law, policing etc.
It's only a matter of time before some billionaire gets this idea and buys an island and implements this system. The terminators, at least the good can come after centuries of trial and error.
 
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