Brexit and the Consequences

This is a discussion on Brexit and the Consequences within the The Foyer forums, part of the Off the Grid category; Originally Posted by Atilla Put the thread back on track - UK Science is suffering already. Newsnight discussing funding now. ...

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Old Jul 26, 2016, 11:36pm   #76
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Put the thread back on track - UK Science is suffering already. Newsnight discussing funding now. Asking parliament to underwrite science funding previously provided by the EU.

http://www.nature.com/news/brexit-wa...cience-1.20307

If we don't brain drain will start soon enough.

So far not seeing any positives coming from the Brexit crowd. Just news showing how shafted we have been.

This is going to effect universities up and down the country.


I'm sure fisherman up North will be happier knowing clever cloggs got shafted like they did and will now know how they felt. Cut off your nose to spite your face. Good work.


http://www.nature.com/news/how-scien...brexit-1.20158

http://www.nature.com/news/brexit-wa...cience-1.20307

Scientists usually look down on anecdotal evidence — but for the past month, alarmed UK researchers have been grabbing at every anecdote they can find.

The reason: an urgent need to emphasize to politicians that UK science is already being damaged by Brexit, the country’s decision to leave the European Union. Because of uncertainty about the future, research leaders say, UK institutions that rely on EU funding are already seeing their staff dropped or demoted from planned collaborative EU grant applications, and top talent could already be leaving Britain.

“It’s a bit soon to tell whether this is really significant. The stories we are getting are in the tens, not in the hundreds or thousands,” Philip Nelson, chief executive of the UK Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council (EPSRC), told a House of Lords inquiry into the effects of Brexit on science on 19 July. “The extent to which this is a kneejerk reaction to the referendum is really hard to tell.”


Tell Nature: Big or small, we want to hear how Brexit is affecting you
Individual anecdotes of Brexit’s concrete impacts are emerging. Tom Dowling, a British geologist who returned to the United Kingdom in March after gaining his PhD at Lund University in Sweden, told Nature that he has just scrapped his application for a European research grant. He and his supervisor at Cambridge University felt that potential post-Brexit bias against British scientists meant that it “wasn’t worth continuing”. Dowling adds that he is now considering leaving the country and taking European citizenship.

And Chris Husbands, vice-chancellor of Sheffield Hallam University, told a House of Commons inquiry that his institution’s academics had been asked to withdraw from three collaborative projects funded by the EU’s Horizon 2020 programme, “due to the perceived risk of having a UK partner on the project”. Other consortia have asked that the university no longer be a coordinator in collaborations, he said. The UK science minister Jo Johnson, has set up a specific e-mail address (research@bis.gsi.gov.uk) to receive more such examples.

Still, five UK universities told Nature that they haven’t yet heard firm examples of negative fallout from Brexit. And spokespeople for two organizations that are collating dossiers for Johnson’s inbox — Universities UK, which represents British higher-education institutions, and the Institute of Physics — both told Nature on 20 July that despite concerns, they haven’t yet seen evidence that Brexit is having a widespread impact.


Science’s status shifts in new Brexit government
Research leaders say that waiting a few months for stronger evidence — such as quantitative proof of a drop in UK–EU collaborations, or an exodus of non-British EU academics (who make up 15% of UK university staff) — could be too late. “If we do not raise these real concerns now, by the time we have hard data, the damage may have already been done,” says a spokesperson for the Royal Society.

Guarantee wanted
Demands are growing for politicians to do something to reassure scientists. On 19 July, seven national academies, including the Royal Society, urged the government to make a “bold public commitment” that the United Kingdom wants to retain and build on its research base, “to assuage any loss of confidence in UK research”. They say it is “vital” that non-British EU academics be given assurances that they will be able to continue to live and work in the country, and that Britain reassures its EU partners of its commitment to current and future research.

The head of the Royal Society, Nobel laureate Venkatraman Ramakrishnan, has called for the government to underwrite grants given to British scientists in multinational EU projects, to prevent EU collaborators worrying about any future loss of funding. And some researchers hope that the government could guarantee to protect UK research from any financial losses from Brexit, by redirecting some of the money that would have been paid to the EU. When science minister Johnson was asked whether he could promise security for science funding at a 19 July debate on higher-education legislation, he avoided answering the question.


Brexit watch: Scientists grapple with the fallout
But it is politically very unlikely that government ministers can make solid assurances right now, says Sarah Main, director of the London-based Campaign for Science and Engineering. Because Brexit negotiations haven’t started — and because constraints on freedom of movement were a crucial factor in favour of the Brexit vote — no one can guarantee that the United Kingdom will be able to easily hire EU scientists, access EU research funding or play a full part in projects with EU partners in years to come.

Main says that, for now, she’d just like to hear from the new UK government that science is of core importance to its plans for economic growth. “We’ve moved from a political environment where that sort of thing was said quite regularly, to a point where we don’t really know,” she says.

Science on the agenda
Whatever happens, UK scientists want to make sure that their interests are heard when it comes to the Brexit negotiations with the EU. An online petition that calls for any Brexit deal to preserve UK access to EU collaborative research and development programmes has attracted more than 15,000 signatures in the ten days since it was launched. “We want to make sure that science doesn’t get forgotten,” says the petition’s co-founder David Robinson, a metrology specialist who runs Psi-tran, a research consultancy in Surrey, UK.

And more than 1,600 scientists — most of them early-career researchers at UK universities — wrote in a letter to The Times on 22 July that the government should protect scientists by acting to maintain access to EU funding and ensure the free movement of researchers. "If these are lost during EU renegotiations, we insist that the government puts equivalent UK-backed schemes in place," the authors say.


Nature special: Brexit and science
For now, it’s important for scientists to remember that the United Kingdom remains a full member of the EU, emphasizes Gill Wells, who heads a team dealing with queries about European funding at the University of Oxford. She says that there is some panicking. But she has sought and received assurances from the European Commission that there will be no bias against UK applicants for European Research Council grants. And she cautions against making too much noise about the impacts of Brexit on job recruitment. “The more awareness [there is] that people don’t come, the more people won’t come.”

But for non-British scientists pondering UK job applications, the uncertainty must be having an effect, says Philippe Froguel, a French geneticist at Imperial College London. “It is not a good time to go to the UK to do science,” he says. “Nobody in our field knows anything about the future, but everyone imagines the worst: fewer PhD students and academic recruits from Europe, and no access to EU funding, which means a loss of UK leadership in many fields of medical research. Many non-UK nationals like me are thinking of either taking a UK passport or leaving. A big mess indeed.”
Wot ya worryin about, just emigrate like you said

Science eh, keep people alive for longer and add to the care and pensions defecit you keep harping on about !
Not everything science does is progress don'tcha know !
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Old Jul 27, 2016, 12:04am   #77
 
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Old Jul 27, 2016, 12:28am   #78
 
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Wot ya worryin about, just emigrate like you said

Science eh, keep people alive for longer and add to the care and pensions defecit you keep harping on about !
Not everything science does is progress don'tcha know !

You're such a numpty.

You need to get an education. Wannabee is what you are and you think by associating your self with the Conservatives and your darling Mrs Thatcher you become something you are not. I doubt you understand much of anything. You have a bit of money and you're conservative party member. How bloody marvelous of you is that?


First it's the call to re-nationalise railways to improve them and now Ofcom still looking at ways to introduce competition by breaking up BT monopoly. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...t-ofcom-rules/

Some quango yanks thought this would be a good idea to privatise natural monopolies, which Mrs T thought was fantastic and 40 years later we are still begging for service improvement and some competition yes indeed.

Yanks may have been right. Because they really do have competition and unlike our disbanded monopolies and mergers commission they come down very hard on restrictive practices.

Here is a small article from 1994 as it's not news but just big biz practice to rip off the UK consumer. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...h-1416443.html


To think you and I agreed on this point once about selling UK business to vested interests outside the UK and here you are laughing at losing British leading role in R&D

Do you understand anything much other than displaying your ignorance.

You laugh at real dangers facing the City of London and now R&D.


You're Mr know-it-all and that's why like Trump it makes you dangerously stupid.
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Old Jul 27, 2016, 4:47am   #79
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Originally Posted by Atilla View Post
You're such a numpty.

You need to get an education. Wannabee is what you are and you think by associating your self with the Conservatives and your darling Mrs Thatcher you become something you are not. I doubt you understand much of anything. You have a bit of money and you're conservative party member. How bloody marvelous of you is that?


First it's the call to re-nationalise railways to improve them and now Ofcom still looking at ways to introduce competition by breaking up BT monopoly. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...t-ofcom-rules/

Some quango yanks thought this would be a good idea to privatise natural monopolies, which Mrs T thought was fantastic and 40 years later we are still begging for service improvement and some competition yes indeed.

Yanks may have been right. Because they really do have competition and unlike our disbanded monopolies and mergers commission they come down very hard on restrictive practices.

Here is a small article from 1994 as it's not news but just big biz practice to rip off the UK consumer. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...h-1416443.html


To think you and I agreed on this point once about selling UK business to vested interests outside the UK and here you are laughing at losing British leading role in R&D

Do you understand anything much other than displaying your ignorance.

You laugh at real dangers facing the City of London and now R&D.


You're Mr know-it-all and that's why like Trump it makes you dangerously stupid.
Eeewwwee, someone still isn't over Brexit I see

Whats up, did you not have a plan B ? How very remiss!
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Old Jul 27, 2016, 7:20am   #80
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Something must have gone wrong at the BBC. They don't normally do good news stories, especially about Brexit

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36901027
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Old Jul 27, 2016, 8:00am   #81
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Old Jul 27, 2016, 8:00am   #82
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Traders Leaving London Would at Least Escape the Rain

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articl...st-escape-rain
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Old Jul 27, 2016, 8:03am   #83
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Old Jul 27, 2016, 10:26am   #84
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36903164
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Old Jul 27, 2016, 10:40am   #85
 
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Are you pointing to the fairly strong second quarter, or the sting in the tail of "the sharp fall off in economic activity following the referendum"?
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Old Jul 27, 2016, 11:05am   #86
 
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Juncker Names Former Commissioner Barnier to Head Brexit Talks
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Old Jul 27, 2016, 4:10pm   #87
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Are you pointing to the fairly strong second quarter, or the sting in the tail of "the sharp fall off in economic activity following the referendum"?
Was just looking at the GDP chart, seems stable in the run up to Brexit. So now we have something to compare to going forwards.
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Old Jul 27, 2016, 4:22pm   #88
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TUC report in the news.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36903032

I'm not interested in anyone else's spin on the numbers.
But you can have mine.

The simple fact is that since the 2007 credit crunch, only mediocre jobs with crap pay have been created in the UK. Fine to get everyone back to some sort of work. Not fine to have done so much better economically than the rest of the EU and also the lowest paid job workers having to put up with uncontrolled unskilled mass immigration competing only to keep wages down.

This is why we voted out of the EU. The masses finally woke up from their collective stupor.

So, if this Govt has any sense, it will not sign up to any deal with the EU over trade, which involves free movement.
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Old Jul 27, 2016, 6:48pm   #89
 
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TUC report in the news.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36903032

I'm not interested in anyone else's spin on the numbers.
But you can have mine.

The simple fact is that since the 2007 credit crunch, only mediocre jobs with crap pay have been created in the UK. Fine to get everyone back to some sort of work. Not fine to have done so much better economically than the rest of the EU and also the lowest paid job workers having to put up with uncontrolled unskilled mass immigration competing only to keep wages down.

This is why we voted out of the EU. The masses finally woke up from their collective stupor.

So, if this Govt has any sense, it will not sign up to any deal with the EU over trade, which involves free movement.
Difficult to see who might blink first since the opposing positions are each claimed to be inviolable lines in the sand.
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Old Jul 28, 2016, 7:40am   #90
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Indices booming.
UK investment booming.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/694...nvestment-vote
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