Brexit and the Consequences

This is a discussion on Brexit and the Consequences within the The Foyer forums, part of the Off the Grid category; Pro-Brexit politicians must have known the EU would demand a high price for exit. We either pay it now in ...

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Old Oct 22, 2017, 12:50pm   #4041
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Pro-Brexit politicians must have known the EU would demand a high price for exit. We either pay it now in settlement or we pay it later in trade constraints/costs.

Pro-Remain politicians must have known they were arguing for political union with the EU.

Neither could bring themselves to say what they believed it seems. What a surprise.
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Old Oct 22, 2017, 2:16pm   #4042
 
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Atilla started this thread The British public once again are being lied to and led astray by their politicians and treated as fodder. Deprived of accurate information and the facts. Parliament is kept out of the debate so unable to question or rationalise anything.

Let's look at what TM negoatiations are angling for?

We want access to free market and if you give us some assurances of what the future trade deal might look like, we'll see what we can give you?

Reading between the lines this is asking for free access subject to a one off payment. Effectively free access and membership justified by some self valued opinion, we buy more of your goods then we sell to you so its in your - EU's interests to keep us on board.

This is the crux of it.

Well look if you want something like this then just simply take up existing models whether be it the Swiss, Norwegian or just custom union membership?

Well no, coz we are British and we want something a little better, extra and special.

So the EU turns around and says WTF do you want. Be clear!

TM says but I just gave you a wonderful Florence speech and came to your feet to grovel and have a lovely dinner assuring you UK will meet and honour her committments.

So the EU says well you do speak some lovely words but we are not seeing anything on paper to help us negotiate. We can't negotiate on words they have to be proposals on paper.

UK says well we can't do that until you tell us what the trade agreement will look like.

Yep definitely a case of want to eat cake indeed.

As for all the hard core Brexiters, membership fees to a club doesn't make one own the club. So asking for assets back is just bloody minded. Investments in the EU or UK are all agreed and balanced. Hence, no side need compensate anyone.

UK quite entitled to leave without paying a penny. The crunch is does UK want some sort of trade deal and pay membership fees or simply get out and trade on WTO rules.

I'm afraid current government and fecked up debate or lack of in Parliament leads to stalemate and rudderless leadership. So yes UK will leave more by mishap without any control and let business take care of them selves any way shape they can.

That will be the green light for UK business to leave UK and locate in EU borders.

20bn currently offered covers the transition period based on current agreements. So EU should accept that according Brexiters and say here is the free trade deal for you. Some Brexsitters must believe in lala land.


As it stands Norwegian model is about the best offer on the table for UK. Which was also Farage's pov before the blabber mouth got the shock of his life.

I strongly suspect Labour will lean towards such a deal them selves.


However, Libdems still have the best option to put it to a vote in Parliament or another referendum and this alternative is indeed gaining traction in Westminster.
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Last edited by Atilla; Oct 22, 2017 at 3:27pm.
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Old Oct 22, 2017, 4:31pm   #4043
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Originally Posted by Atilla View Post

That will be the green light for UK business to leave UK and locate in EU borders.
Yes, I should beware of the fact that business has not left the UK, yet. Neither did Catalan businesses, until the very last minute, when it became more obvious that talks might fail. Within the last ten days, or so, the talk is that 2,000 businesses have gone. I hope that they have gone to Spain because. if not, the loss to the national economy will be devastating. The biggest ones, lead by Banco Sabadell, Caixabank, Bimbo, Gas Natural were the first. The tax revenues of these is considerable and, no matter what the outcome of coming talks, I doubt that Cataluńa will be the same, again. Fortunately, the two banks have gone to Alicante and Valencia.

It must be noted that business will have to pay 20% more to trade with EU, if they are not in a member state.

Please, UK, watch your step.
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Old Oct 22, 2017, 7:52pm   #4044
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Originally Posted by Splitlink View Post
Yes, I should beware of the fact that business has not left the UK, yet. Neither did Catalan businesses, until the very last minute, when it became more obvious that talks might fail. Within the last ten days, or so, the talk is that 2,000 businesses have gone. I hope that they have gone to Spain because. if not, the loss to the national economy will be devastating. The biggest ones, lead by Banco Sabadell, Caixabank, Bimbo, Gas Natural were the first. The tax revenues of these is considerable and, no matter what the outcome of coming talks, I doubt that Cataluńa will be the same, again. Fortunately, the two banks have gone to Alicante and Valencia.

It must be noted that business will have to pay 20% more to trade with EU, if they are not in a member state.

Please, UK, watch your step.
Split, you keep talking about Brexit as if the UK is the cause of Brexit. Are you following other European countries and their issues as closely. It seems to me that the common denominator in all this European unrest is the EU itself.
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Old Oct 22, 2017, 8:38pm   #4045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atilla View Post
The British public once again are being lied to and led astray by their politicians and treated as fodder. Deprived of accurate information and the facts. Parliament is kept out of the debate so unable to question or rationalise anything.

Let's look at what TM negoatiations are angling for?

We want access to free market and if you give us some assurances of what the future trade deal might look like, we'll see what we can give you?

Reading between the lines this is asking for free access subject to a one off payment. Effectively free access and membership justified by some self valued opinion, we buy more of your goods then we sell to you so its in your - EU's interests to keep us on board.

This is the crux of it.

Well look if you want something like this then just simply take up existing models whether be it the Swiss, Norwegian or just custom union membership?

Well no, coz we are British and we want something a little better, extra and special.

So the EU turns around and says WTF do you want. Be clear!

TM says but I just gave you a wonderful Florence speech and came to your feet to grovel and have a lovely dinner assuring you UK will meet and honour her committments.

So the EU says well you do speak some lovely words but we are not seeing anything on paper to help us negotiate. We can't negotiate on words they have to be proposals on paper.

UK says well we can't do that until you tell us what the trade agreement will look like.

Yep definitely a case of want to eat cake indeed.

As for all the hard core Brexiters, membership fees to a club doesn't make one own the club. So asking for assets back is just bloody minded. Investments in the EU or UK are all agreed and balanced. Hence, no side need compensate anyone.

UK quite entitled to leave without paying a penny. The crunch is does UK want some sort of trade deal and pay membership fees or simply get out and trade on WTO rules.

I'm afraid current government and fecked up debate or lack of in Parliament leads to stalemate and rudderless leadership. So yes UK will leave more by mishap without any control and let business take care of them selves any way shape they can.

That will be the green light for UK business to leave UK and locate in EU borders.

20bn currently offered covers the transition period based on current agreements. So EU should accept that according Brexiters and say here is the free trade deal for you. Some Brexsitters must believe in lala land.


As it stands Norwegian model is about the best offer on the table for UK. Which was also Farage's pov before the blabber mouth got the shock of his life.

I strongly suspect Labour will lean towards such a deal them selves.


However, Libdems still have the best option to put it to a vote in Parliament or another referendum and this alternative is indeed gaining traction in Westminster.
Wot a pile of utter tosh.

For starters, not everything about Brexit is economic.

The UK is the 5th largest economy, so of course we will demand a suitable deal.

No deal is also fine. It won't take long for the rest of Europe to come with the begging bowl, once they see the hardship it will cause in other European countries.

Then we have the issue of the UK doing very nicely and the rest of the EU exporting their unemployment problem to the UK.
As a direct consequence of this, the other member countries go backwards as their highly skilled desert their homeland in order to profit from the UK economy. Another direct consequence is that the UK cannot keep up with service provision because it cannot plan for ever increasing numbers using those services.
Another direct consequence is the housing stock, which is either unaffordable, or insufficient in number to house all these interlopers, which in turn affected the life chances of the indigenous population.
Another direct consequence is the number of unskilled economic migrants who have kept down the wages of the lower paid for decades. The real trouble started though when this mass pool of cheap labour started to affect the middle classes, skilled workers etc. That is why Brexit happened. The UK reached the tipping point where the majority of people said enough is enough.

And finally, yes we are entitled to our share of the assets. So you just watch what happens when / if a no deal is announced. The next moves will be through the courts to recover the assets. The fact that no one is talking about this presently is because the UK is trying to get the EU to see sense and to afford them the opportunity to continue trade without the need to play hard ball.
If the EU continues with the "hard ball" rhetoric, then don't be surprised if the UK walks away, ups the anti, and puts the boot in. In this scenario, the EU project will be finished for good.

Just a reminder again. Lib Dem revival ain't gonna happen. Last election saw vote share go down not up. There is no stopping Brexit, there is no public support to reverse Brexit, just a pile of obstruction and wishful thinking from those who think they know better than the majority.
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Old Oct 22, 2017, 8:48pm   #4046
 
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just a pile of obstruction and wishful thinking from those who think they know better than the majority.
Si 50 millions de personnes disent une bętise, c'est quand męme une bętise.

--Anatole France
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Old Oct 22, 2017, 9:45pm   #4047
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Si 50 millions de personnes disent une bętise, c'est quand męme une bętise.
--Anatole France
Typical tripe from the bourgeois elites dbp. That said, perhaps you and monsieur Fance are right: that's what separates us leavers from the remoaners - we're open minded to constructive debate.

If that number of people have a misguided belief then the only way to convince them that they're wrong is to let them have their way and to allow them to reap the (awful) consequences of their actions. Personally, I'm more than happy to take that chance and hold up my hand in shame if it all turns to poop. Right now, I'm extremely confident (more so than a year ago) that my decision to vote leave was the right one.

If you're right and all us Brexiteers are just hopeless misguided fools - we'll all end up eating humble pie in no time at all. On the other hand, do you think there's any possibility, even just the tiniest of one, that we're right and that the '50 millions de personnes' actually have their collective fingers on the pulse and know exactly what's going on? I know, it's a crazy thought, but even you must have considered it!

Tim.
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Old Oct 22, 2017, 9:46pm   #4048
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Si 50 millions de personnes disent une bętise, c'est quand męme une bętise.

--Anatole France
There are more than 50 million people in the EU that don't support the EU.

(I just don't have the facts at hand to support that assertion though )

Wouldn't it be interesting to have an EU wide referendum?
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