Brexit and the Consequences

This is a discussion on Brexit and the Consequences within the The Foyer forums, part of the Off the Grid category; Originally Posted by FXX If I can join in. The biggest problem with the eu is the euro and convergence ...

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Old Oct 14, 2017, 1:32pm   #3969
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If I can join in.

The biggest problem with the eu is the euro and convergence criteria. Brexit is obviously an important issue but it is not the biggest facing the eu. On the brexit issue I think it is disgusting they are demanding money upfront without being clear how much they think we owe and blocking all other negotiations until it is paid. Maybe we should say no deal to them as a wake up call to start negotiating without the childishness.

Brad

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It's even worse than that.
The EU runs a balance sheet, as does any organisation. The balance sheet has 2 sides, assets and liabilities. So the UK may well have some outstanding liabilities, but by the same rule, we are entitled to our share of the assets. It really is that simple.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/200606
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Old Oct 14, 2017, 5:25pm   #3970
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It's even worse than that.
The EU runs a balance sheet, as does any organisation. The balance sheet has 2 sides, assets and liabilities. So the UK may well have some outstanding liabilities, but by the same rule, we are entitled to our share of the assets. It really is that simple.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/200606
There you go, again! Unfortunately, it's not as simple as that. This is not about balance sheets, anymore than the ball being in the other's court. You are bargainng a trading deal, which is what you want, with EU's request for EU citizens rights and money that they think that you owe them. That is what they want. If there is no deal, you walk away. The point is that you are not doing that.

Hammond is right, although he could have made a better choice of words. The EU comprises 27 members and they are standing firm on this. The UK was hoping for disunity. Disunity is what you seem to have in London and it is very bad for business to let the other side see that. That is one of the reasons that you are not getting anywhere.

The EU breaking up? You hope, but no one can be sure, especially in the time span of these talks.

Last edited by Splitlink; Oct 14, 2017 at 5:30pm.
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Old Oct 14, 2017, 6:12pm   #3971
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There you go, again! Unfortunately, it's not as simple as that. This is not about balance sheets, anymore than the ball being in the other's court. You are bargainng a trading deal, which is what you want, with EU's request for EU citizens rights and money that they think that you owe them. That is what they want. If there is no deal, you walk away. The point is that you are not doing that.

Hammond is right, although he could have made a better choice of words. The EU comprises 27 members and they are standing firm on this. The UK was hoping for disunity. Disunity is what you seem to have in London and it is very bad for business to let the other side see that. That is one of the reasons that you are not getting anywhere.

The EU breaking up? You hope, but no one can be sure, especially in the time span of these talks.
Nope, the EU team have made it quite clear that we are NOT negotiating any trade deal until the Brexit bill is settled. The Brexit bill is for commitments and wotnot until we leave. None of this is anything to do with a trade deal. So my point about assets and liabilities stands. Once this is sorted out, any future trade arrangements will of course have costs, but they have sod all to do with assets and liabilities currently.

On the point of no deal, the 27 will not stand firm on this issue, some of those member countries will lose out very badly, so all we need do is wait until they put pressure back on the EU.
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Old Oct 14, 2017, 6:18pm   #3972
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Atilla, working people are very nice folk. Not just in the UK, but everywhere else, as well. Unfortunately, they account for most of the electorate and they cannot be bothered to vote.

My father waa a busman. In those days, LT unions were organised by garages, so one garage controlled all the bus routes that ran out of it. My father told me that there was a hard core that was enough to form a quorum. How many were in a quorum, I don't know, but they used to bring a whole garage out just because the majority could not be bothered to go and vote.

That is the same all the way up the line. No matter what you may say about them being the weakest, they are only the weakest because of their own fault and they are so easily led by a handful who are natural talkers.

I, personally, feel that history is just that. Mainly, I am more interested in my own experiences. I am quite capable of blaming whoever I believe was responsible for what goes wrong in a country. In most cases, the blame lies with the majority, for allowing it to happen. It's no good blaming Lafarge and Johnson for allowing Brexit to happen and for being ambitious.
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Old Oct 14, 2017, 7:40pm   #3973
 
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Atilla, working people are very nice folk. Not just in the UK, but everywhere else, as well. Unfortunately, they account for most of the electorate and they cannot be bothered to vote.

My father waa a busman. In those days, LT unions were organised by garages, so one garage controlled all the bus routes that ran out of it. My father told me that there was a hard core that was enough to form a quorum. How many were in a quorum, I don't know, but they used to bring a whole garage out just because the majority could not be bothered to go and vote.

That is the same all the way up the line. No matter what you may say about them being the weakest, they are only the weakest because of their own fault and they are so easily led by a handful who are natural talkers.

I, personally, feel that history is just that. Mainly, I am more interested in my own experiences. I am quite capable of blaming whoever I believe was responsible for what goes wrong in a country. In most cases, the blame lies with the majority, for allowing it to happen. It's no good blaming Lafarge and Johnson for allowing Brexit to happen and for being ambitious.
Ditto the US. The right-wing prevails because they are so fanatical about right-wing issues, e.g., abortion and guns, and vote. The left-wing isn't as fanatical about left-wing issues -- whatever those might be -- so they don't vote. And because the right-wing votes, they are catered to by the politicians who are desperate to hang on to their elected offices (as opposed to going out and getting real jobs).

And so here we are, with a "president" who thinks he's host of a reality show.
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Old Oct 16, 2017, 9:56pm   #3974
 
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Atilla started this thread Over the weekend heard some Brexiters talking on Andrew Marr show and on other political chat shows.

The word is, let's be a little more optimistic and get behind Brexit. We can do this they blurb. What is funny in a really strange way, is that these words are coming from the Conservative party. The so called party of business.

When asked if they have a business plan and can we have a look at their white paper on the proposal, there is zilch. No need. We know we can do this. We don't need a business plan. We've done it before in 18th century and we can do it again in the 21st. We just need to be a little more up beat. Come on guys. Believe in your selves.

Bit like a placebo. Believe in your own BS. That is a tough act to follow.


Then we have TM the bloody difficult woman trying to achieve bloody difficult feats with negative **** poor performance.

You've got to ask if she's got nothing else to do but go over there for din din's with the enemy?

Although Mrs May's trip to Brussels was not made public during last week's negotiations, Downing Street sources insisted it had "been in the diary for weeks".

Over a dinner expected to last 90 minutes, the PM hopes to end a stalemate over the three initial topics for negotiation - the amount the UK owes the EU when it leaves, the future rights of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens living in the EU, and what happens on the Northern Ireland border.

The EU side says that until "sufficient progress" is made on these three items they will not begin discussing the UK's post-Brexit relations - things like trade arrangements and defence.


ROTFLMAO. First Trump and now the EU. UK belittled all the way.

Daft Brexiters undermining the nation with lies and deceit. Sooner or later the buck will have to stop.

Eurosceptics, rich toffs will cut off their noses to spite their faces. To them it's just pure political ambition to get names on history books. Absolute feck all to do with national interest.


The time has come for Theresa May to tell the nation: Brexit can’t be done
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Old Oct 16, 2017, 10:20pm   #3975
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Originally Posted by Atilla View Post
Over the weekend heard some Brexiters talking on Andrew Marr show and on other political chat shows.

The word is, let's be a little more optimistic and get behind Brexit. We can do this they blurb. What is funny in a really strange way, is that these words are coming from the Conservative party. The so called party of business.

When asked if they have a business plan and can we have a look at their white paper on the proposal, there is zilch. No need. We know we can do this. We don't need a business plan. We've done it before in 18th century and we can do it again in the 21st. We just need to be a little more up beat. Come on guys. Believe in your selves.

Bit like a placebo. Believe in your own BS. That is a tough act to follow.


Then we have TM the bloody difficult woman trying to achieve bloody difficult feats with negative **** poor performance.

You've got to ask if she's got nothing else to do but go over there for din din's with the enemy?

Although Mrs May's trip to Brussels was not made public during last week's negotiations, Downing Street sources insisted it had "been in the diary for weeks".

Over a dinner expected to last 90 minutes, the PM hopes to end a stalemate over the three initial topics for negotiation - the amount the UK owes the EU when it leaves, the future rights of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens living in the EU, and what happens on the Northern Ireland border.

The EU side says that until "sufficient progress" is made on these three items they will not begin discussing the UK's post-Brexit relations - things like trade arrangements and defence.


ROTFLMAO. First Trump and now the EU. UK belittled all the way.

Daft Brexiters undermining the nation with lies and deceit. Sooner or later the buck will have to stop.

Eurosceptics, rich toffs will cut off their noses to spite their faces. To them it's just pure political ambition to get names on history books. Absolute feck all to do with national interest.


The time has come for Theresa May to tell the nation: Brexit canít be done
Hi Atilla

I have never heard of any government having a business plan for their affairs. After brexit the UK will operate on wto rules like we do with the rest of the world now. These brexit talks are a joke but not because our negotiators are useless but rather because the EU refuse to negotiate until a blank cheque is handed over and UK agrees to sign after the EU fills in the numbers. I keep hearing people compare this to a divorce procedure and assume the UK needs to pay up. Well In a divorce procedure all assets are added to the negotiations. If we added up all the contributions since joining it would probably amount to hundreds of billions of pounds so where is that in the debate? I think the EU purposely left out money in article 50 because of this contentious issue. So here we are trying to negotiate with people that only want money and are forgetting how much we already own in partnership. You might think they are all silly while I think anyone would be struggling in this situation. How can we negotiate when they are completely ignoring the obvious and pushing for something that only a fool would accept.

Brad
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Old Oct 16, 2017, 10:40pm   #3976
 
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Hi Atilla

I have never heard of any government having a business plan for their affairs. After brexit the UK will operate on wto rules like we do with the rest of the world now. These brexit talks are a joke but not because our negotiators are useless but rather because the EU refuse to negotiate until a blank cheque is handed over and UK agrees to sign after the EU fills in the numbers. I keep hearing people compare this to a divorce procedure and assume the UK needs to pay up. Well In a divorce procedure all assets are added to the negotiations. If we added up all the contributions since joining it would probably amount to hundreds of billions of pounds so where is that in the debate? I think the EU purposely left out money in article 50 because of this contentious issue. So here we are trying to negotiate with people that only want money and are forgetting how much we already own in partnership. You might think they are all silly while I think anyone would be struggling in this situation. How can we negotiate when they are completely ignoring the obvious and pushing for something that only a fool would accept.

Brad

Business plan is called the White Paper. Google it.

Legally, UK doesn't have to pay anything as you say because this scenario was never considered by EU.

Having said that any future negotiations will entail considerably more haggling and payments than now.

WTO rules are worst scenario. Cost implications and export substitution will take place and UK will lose considerably more than 9bn we pay for none of the benefits we currently get.

UK will continue to import whilst exports will be hit. These kinds of cost benefit analysis of gains and losses are not for the public to debate let alone comprehend.

As mentioned before UK departure will be positive gain for the German and French economies. UK media talking about German's paying more. They'll gain considerably more from the demise of UK finance, legal and pharmaceutical industries.

Eurosceptic fockers not interested in national interest but their own careers. UK public also not the brightest or best educated sadly so.


Right now, both the US and UK are dwindling stars that's losing their sparkle. If you don't see it now, you'll see it soon enough when that last glitter of light fades out.
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