Brexit and the Consequences

This is a discussion on Brexit and the Consequences within the The Foyer forums, part of the Off the Grid category; Originally Posted by counter_violent I could be wrong (just kidding) but i'm sure there is a difference between me, travelling ...

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Old Oct 14, 2018, 9:54am   #7246
 
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Originally Posted by counter_violent View Post
I could be wrong (just kidding) but i'm sure there is a difference between me, travelling by conventional means and those who are being trafficked daily and either dumped into Europe or picked up by NGO's and processed / registered in order that they can be quickly dispatched onwards to their country of choice.

BTW, just to be clear, we are not talking about genuine refugees here, we are talking about hoards of young men who's only aim is to get to Europe and then do whatever it takes to remain there.

I've already covered the ghetto problem which comes after.

And you can't see a problem here
Of course thereís a problem as the humanitarian or economic (much the same thing if you are attempting to climb out of absolute poverty) migrants reach tidal wave proportions. So what would you do? Cold heartedly turn your face and try to stop them coming in (how? Machine gun posts maybe) or what. Brexit isnít going to solve it.
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Old Oct 14, 2018, 9:54am   #7247
 
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Last word from me today on this vile subject. PC is a horrible disease, the same has happened to Lee Rigby.

https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/10/fr...1CBpNw.twitter
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Old Oct 14, 2018, 10:03am   #7248
 
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Polls in Bavaria today, is the CSU going to get trashed?



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Old Oct 14, 2018, 12:08pm   #7249
 
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Originally Posted by counter_violent View Post
A non controlled border is by definition an open border and we can be absolutely certain that the EU is directly responsible. It's not even up for debate when the EU's policy of "sharing out the migrants" has been met by resistance from a growing number of member countries.

You can pretend that all is well in the EU, but that is all it is, a great big pretense.

Far from integrating into any host country, migrants simply flock together into their respective ghettos which then turn into no go zones once critical mass is reached.

EU ghetto's and no go zones.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/eur...our-terrorists







I am glad in some respects and saddened by others.

First off, do you peeps ever ask your self the question why do these groups want to carry out acts of terrorism in the streets of France? Especially more so as an ISIS is a terrorist organisation created and aided by the west (US, UK and France and aided by Turkey) to overthrow the Syrian regime? They were given free reign to attack Iran, cross vasts amounts of territory under US control and even rob Iraqi banks stealing millions of dollars of gold and currency. They were allowed to trade in oil, using tankers through Kurdish controlled peshmerga.

It's just eye candy for the masses. This was all done under the guise US was trying to restore peace and democracy in Syria which until post feck-up of Iraq was a peaceful state not much trouble other than to the state of Israel.

US CIA created Al-Qaida to fight the Russians in Afghanistan and the same ploy is used in Syria.

Really, if you so called smart intelligent bodies can't see the pattern or major strategic global plays for resources in the ME then you may need to read a little more outside of national daily trash.

As for France, they have been involved in all kinds of colonial atrocities in Africa and still have, much like the UK, interests in having some kind of global influence in the World.

As it happens US, UK and France have command posts and bases all over the place. France has visions of sending troops to Syria to help out with US meddling. However, all this fiasco instead of destabilising the ME and Russia, in contrast, is leading to running down of military and ballooning of unaffordable defence spending in our climate of pure capitalism going ape-sh!t with greed.

The unintended consequence has been the mess we have now. So as much as Brexit opportunist look to blame migrants and refugees for our NHS, Police reduction in numbers, school teachers leaving the profession, prison cells are not fit for animal husbandry, ageing population of OAPs, shrinking tax base, expanding pension obligations, Brexit will not solve any of those issues. On the contrary will have a negative influence on them all.

Some may argue lax controls help with the movement of people to Syria and the ME and back. How else are these three countries supposed to conduct foreign policy meddling in other countries without some level of movement?

I have no idea why Europeans would want to travel to Turkey to cross into Syria of all places. Any official can see when there is an above average of bodies leaving from Belgium to Turkey and subsequently crossing into Syria or coming back to the EU alarm bells should be ringing all over the place. Yet it's covered up and glossed over.

If the plan was the remove EU dependency on gas and oil from Russia and replace by commandeering supplies in the ME whilst implementing friendly regimes to rape and pillage countries resources, it's not gone too well at the moment has it.

UK and France were jokeying to get influence over Libyan contracts post-Gadaffi. How has that worked out you reckon? All Gadaffi wanted was a stable and prospering Libya with some leadership status over other African countries. Such a big mess up and small minded people can only aggravate the position by victimising the very people who sought to get away from it all.


As for raping our children and all that well that's just crime. Happens all the time. Much like Europeans going to ME or Thailand where they can get away with paying for underaged boys and girls.

The roman catholic church, institutions for vulnerable people and children and even major heart of UK government with key players in Parliament have all been party to it. For a much longer period too. Like 40-50 years before being called out. The BBC even protected Jimmy Saville turning a blind eye to his requests despite information suggesting he was a sexual offender. He even abused children in hospital and nurses left him alone with children in recovery. Sick vile human beings including those in power!!!

Repeat reference to these criminal elements, in some shape or form to justify Brexit I find really really manipulative and disgusting to win daft argument which has no basis.

No clarity or purpose in action or the expected outcomes. Big mess. Total mess Brexit!
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Old Oct 14, 2018, 12:46pm   #7250
 
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Originally Posted by Atilla View Post
I am glad in some respects and saddened by others.

First off, do you peeps ever ask your self the question why do these groups want to carry out acts of terrorism in the streets of France? Especially more so as an ISIS is a terrorist organisation created and aided by the west (US, UK and France and aided by Turkey) to overthrow the Syrian regime? They were given free reign to attack Iran, cross vasts amounts of territory under US control and even rob Iraqi banks stealing millions of dollars of gold and currency. They were allowed to trade in oil, using tankers through Kurdish controlled peshmerga.

It's just eye candy for the masses. This was all done under the guise US was trying to restore peace and democracy in Syria which until post feck-up of Iraq was a peaceful state not much trouble other than to the state of Israel.

US CIA created Al-Qaida to fight the Russians in Afghanistan and the same ploy is used in Syria.

Really, if you so called smart intelligent bodies can't see the pattern or major strategic global plays for resources in the ME then you may need to read a little more outside of national daily trash.

As for France, they have been involved in all kinds of colonial atrocities in Africa and still have, much like the UK, interests in having some kind of global influence in the World.

As it happens US, UK and France have command posts and bases all over the place. France has visions of sending troops to Syria to help out with US meddling. However, all this fiasco instead of destabilising the ME and Russia, in contrast, is leading to running down of military and ballooning of unaffordable defence spending in our climate of pure capitalism going ape-sh!t with greed.
All good stuff, but why does this mean that innocent local Western populations should suffer as a result of poor decisions made by their governments?

Quote:
The unintended consequence has been the mess we have now. So as much as Brexit opportunist look to blame migrants and refugees for our NHS, Police reduction in numbers, school teachers leaving the profession, prison cells are not fit for animal husbandry, ageing population of OAPs, shrinking tax base, expanding pension obligations, Brexit will not solve any of those issues. On the contrary will have a negative influence on them all.
If you understand politics at all, then you will understand that Brexit is the result of ordinary citizens attempting to oust the control exerted over them by the very governments doing them wrong.

Quote:
UK and France were jokeying to get influence over Libyan contracts post-Gadaffi. How has that worked out you reckon? All Gadaffi wanted was a stable and prospering Libya with some leadership status over other African countries. Such a big mess up and small minded people can only aggravate the position by victimising the very people who sought to get away from it all.
You are getting mixed up between refugee migrants and criminal migrants, as you always do.

No-one is victimising refugees.

Quote:
As for raping our children and all that well that's just crime.
Wow, what a cop-out, the wholesale gang rape of 100,000's of children perpetrated by mostly one section of society and then deliberately covered up by the authorities for decades is just crime ?

No wonder you get called the loony left!

Quote:
Happens all the time. Much like Europeans going to ME or Thailand where they can get away with paying for underaged boys and girls.

The roman catholic church, institutions for vulnerable people and children and even major heart of UK government with key players in Parliament have all been party to it. For a much longer period too. Like 40-50 years before being called out. The BBC even protected Jimmy Saville turning a blind eye to his requests despite information suggesting he was a sexual offender. He even abused children in hospital and nurses left him alone with children in recovery. Sick vile human beings including those in power!!!
Of course, no-one could possibly defend this, apart from those perpetrators and those in authority who are complicit. There is no equivalence with mass gang rape though is there? And there is no reason to defend either just because they may come from different sections of society. <<<<< That is political correctness!

Quote:
Repeat reference to these criminal elements, in some shape or form to justify Brexit I find really really manipulative and disgusting to win daft argument which has no basis.

No clarity or purpose in action or the expected outcomes. Big mess. Total mess Brexit!
People traffickers, people slavery, open borders, lack of border controls, NGO boats, poor foreign policy, bribery, corruption, illegal immigration, political correct policies...etc etc

All have led to the point of Brexit, trying not to associate these is futile.

Last edited by Signalcalc; Oct 14, 2018 at 2:01pm.
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Old Oct 14, 2018, 12:48pm   #7251
 
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Originally Posted by counter_violent View Post
The unfathomable puzzle is why our respective Govt's allow all this to happen and have the temerity to tell us that we are intolerant.
This looks like one part of the puzzle.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20.../bae.armstrade
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Old Oct 14, 2018, 2:03pm   #7252
 
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Originally Posted by Signalcalc View Post
All good stuff, but why does this mean that innocent local Western populations should suffer as a result of poor decisions made by their governments?



If you understand politics at all, then you will understand that Brexit is the result of ordinary citizens attempting to oust the control exerted over them by the very governments doing them wrong.

I might suggest it is corrupt business, industry and military power players doing the influencing. Man on the streets looks at his next door neighbour. Forces and currents in flow are far greater and of global strategic significance so identifying root cause of issues totally wrong imo.

You are getting mixed up between refugee migrants and criminal migrants, as you always do.

Crime is crime irrespective of race colour or creed. I don't really care for any. Not confused at all.

No-one is victimising refugees. No but the subject matter is used to influence Brexit sentiment.



Wow, what a cop-out, the wholesale gang rape of 100,000's of children perpetrated by mostly one section of society and then deliberately covered up by the authorities for decades is just crime ?
One section???? You are in denial!
No wonder you get called the loony left! What's loony left politics got to do with it or Brexit. Crime is crime and courts don't really question political bias of criminals, do they?



Of course, no-one could possibly defend this, apart from those perpetrators and those in authority who are complicit. There is no equivalence with mass gang rape thought is there? And there is no reason to defend either just because they may come from different sections of society. <<<<< That is political correctness!

I'm not defending them. Just pointing out has FA to do with Brexit. They are commonwealth country members aren't they? Not EU.

People traffickers, people slavery, open borders, lack of border controls, NGO boats, poor foreign policy, bribery, corruption, illegal immigration, political correct policies...etc etc

All have led to the point of Brexit, trying not to associate these is futile.

Yes they have but that's more to do as you say with our foreign office employing more custom officers adn controlling borders. Nothing to stop UK controlling flow from EU into UK. Check criminal records and deny access. If no job to go to deny access. Pay them minimum benefit or none at all as per EU rules.

Brexiteers diluting the debate running desperately off-skew to win back favour as the country lurches into the correction or cliff edge departure.
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Old Oct 14, 2018, 4:53pm   #7253
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Dominic Raab is making an unplanned visit to Brussels this pm to meet with Barnier etc. Talks are due to start in less than an hour's time.
https://www.ft.com/content/d21103b2-...2-7574db66bcd5

If you have opportunity to set or adjust (or cancel) GBP and EUR orders and stops, don't delay. There is no timetable for what's happening right now but let's imagine Raab flies home with some sort of agreement - it could be announced as soon as tonight.
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Old Oct 14, 2018, 4:53pm   #7254
 
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Shock poll - shock for the EU that is.

https://tinyurl.com/ybdpx76t
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Old Oct 14, 2018, 5:08pm   #7255
 
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Shock poll - shock for the EU that is.

https://tinyurl.com/ybdpx76t

How does that poll tally up with Brexiteers assertion that the EU controls and dictates everything we do.

It can't be prevalent and irrelevant at the same time can it?

Do you not see any contradictory pov.


fwiw I agree if the EU were to disappear overnight life would go on much as before. Just that any subsequent changes to policy or negotiations with other countries will go back to square one with more confusion and chaos each nation trying to conduct their own. Inefficient, with less positive outcomes than what we have now.
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Old Oct 14, 2018, 5:39pm   #7256
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Originally Posted by Atilla View Post
How does that poll tally up with Brexiteers assertion that the EU controls and dictates everything we do.

It can't be prevalent and irrelevant at the same time can it?

Do you not see any contradictory pov.


fwiw I agree if the EU were to disappear overnight life would go on much as before. Just that any subsequent changes to policy or negotiations with other countries will go back to square one with more confusion and chaos each nation trying to conduct their own. Inefficient, with less positive outcomes than what we have now.


We told you the EU would collapse and now you say "life would just carry on" post EU.

On the point of positive outcomes.... do you mean like the "cultural enrichment" that I posted earlier?

Funny guy.
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Old Oct 14, 2018, 6:04pm   #7257
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Of course there’s a problem as the humanitarian or economic (much the same thing if you are attempting to climb out of absolute poverty) migrants reach tidal wave proportions. So what would you do? Cold heartedly turn your face and try to stop them coming in (how? Machine gun posts maybe) or what. Brexit isn’t going to solve it.
For starters, the traffickers are not providing a free humanitarian service here you know. They are just in it for the money.

Brexit is just one step in the right direction.

The total collapse of the EU is the extension of Brexit and this will come at the same time as civil disobedience or even civil war breaks out in every country across Europe.

Europhiles are like bad traders who keep on doing the same things expecting different outcomes.

If you want to know how humans behave, then look at history and also at the natural world. Nothing ever changes and nothing ever will change. People are territorial and tribal and their bottom line interest is always the same. Bugger thy neighbour, look after your own.
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Old Oct 14, 2018, 6:19pm   #7258
 
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How does that poll tally up with Brexiteers assertion that the EU controls and dictates everything we do.

It can't be prevalent and irrelevant at the same time can it?

Do you not see any contradictory pov.
Are you missing the context of the report and getting confused? 49% view the EU project as "irrelevant" with grievances around the lack of transparency and anger at EU leaders "not focusing on the things people care about".

Meaning that people view the EU decisions as irrelevant despite being controlled and ruled by them. I would assume that if the EU decisions did not affect people adversely then there would not be as much anger or grievance.

I'm assuming you mean relevant rather than prevalent? 49% roughly tallies with the Brexit vote split, it also means that 51% either find the EU project relevant or have no opinion on the matter, so it can't be relevant and irrelevant at the same time to those people that voted one way or another!

Confused.com you are.

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Old Oct 14, 2018, 6:59pm   #7259
 
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Are you missing the context of the report and getting confused? 49% view the EU project as "irrelevant" with grievances around the lack of transparency and anger at EU leaders "not focusing on the things people care about".

Meaning that people view the EU decisions as irrelevant despite being controlled and ruled by them. I would assume that if the EU decisions did not affect people adversely then there would not be as much anger or grievance.

I'm assuming you mean relevant rather than prevalent? 49% roughly tallies with the Brexit vote split, it also means that 51% either find the EU project relevant or have no opinion on the matter, so it can't be relevant and irrelevant at the same time to those people that voted one way or another!

Confused.com you are.

Thanks, but I'm perfectly clear matey and I feel you are reluctantly getting the point but obviously struggling with it.

You can't have it both ways. Hang on a minute. You are a Brexiteer and perhaps you might get to pick n mix in your dreams

Never thought EU interfered with my life at all. Made many things easier but interfere or build obstacles, no never. That's what that survey is telling you but the daily trash has mummified your intellect and brain to think for your self. Your are wrapped up. Your thoughts are irrelevant to the daily trash. They feed you, and you regurtitate.

Point stands. Exercise your grey cells a little longer.
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Old Oct 14, 2018, 7:16pm   #7260
 
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Thanks, but I'm perfectly clear matey and I feel you are reluctantly getting the point but obviously struggling with it.

You can't have it both ways. Hang on a minute. You are a Brexiteer and perhaps you might get to pick n mix in your dreams

Never thought EU interfered with my life at all. Made many things easier but interfere or build obstacles, no never. That's what that survey is telling you but the daily trash has mummified your intellect and brain to think for your self. Your are wrapped up. Your thoughts are irrelevant to the daily trash. They feed you, and you regurtitate.

Point stands. Exercise your grey cells a little longer.
No, no, no, you are reading English, not remainerish, take off your blinkered world view and try re-reading the report again until you understand what it is telling you.

For your clarity, I shall summarise, it's not very complicated - lots of people are unhappy with the EU and want their borders back, the current EU leadership take a position where they think that the world would collapse without them, the new incoming EU leadership recognises there is a problem and must try harder not to make so many of its citizens unhappy.

Nothing more, nothing less, you must stop trying to interpret English to fit whatever the 'people's vote' narrative is.

And if you want full marks, try not to mix-up relevant and prevalent next time. Simple basic English comprehension is all that's needed, remainer school is over, get back into the real world.
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