FXCM Discussion

This is a discussion on FXCM Discussion within the Forex Brokers forums, part of the Commercial category; They might have declared Force Majeure but I'm pretty certain it wouldn't stick if legally challenged. It's a well defined ...

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Old Jan 24, 2015, 10:21am   #785
 
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They might have declared Force Majeure but I'm pretty certain it wouldn't stick if legally challenged. It's a well defined contract term that specifically covers Acts of God (weather events, lightning strikes, etc), war, terrorism, riots, radiation (yes it's that specific), as reasons why contract terms can't be met. There's no way central bank action and ensuing market chaos qualifies as FM. I checked my broker contract this morning and in its FM clause, it gives examples of what might be considered an FM event as effects a brokerage: eg power cuts that prevent it from maintaining an IT link with the exchange, and even then the power cut must be related to the type of event described above. I'm not a lawyer, but FXCM's use of FM in this instance is no more than kite flying.

(Reposted here at C_V's suggestion, from : http://www.trade2win.com/boards/fore...ck-swan-5.html )
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Old Jan 24, 2015, 11:04am   #786
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From Fxcm's agreements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack o'Clubs View Post
They might have declared Force Majeure but I'm pretty certain it wouldn't stick if legally challenged. It's a well defined contract term that specifically covers Acts of God (weather events, lightning strikes, etc), war, terrorism, riots, radiation (yes it's that specific), as reasons why contract terms can't be met. There's no way central bank action and ensuing market chaos qualifies as FM. I checked my broker contract this morning and in its FM clause, it gives examples of what might be considered an FM event as effects a brokerage: eg power cuts that prevent it from maintaining an IT link with the exchange, and even then the power cut must be related to the type of event described above. I'm not a lawyer, but FXCM's use of FM in this instance is no more than kite flying.

(Reposted here at C_V's suggestion, from : http://www.trade2win.com/boards/fore...ck-swan-5.html )

Force majeure: Since we do not control signal power, its reception or routing via Internet, configuration of your equipment or reliability of its connections, we shall not be liable for any claims, losses, damages, costs or expenses, including attorney’s fees, caused directly or indirectly, by any breakdown or failure of any transmission or communication system or equipment or computer facility or trading software, whether belonging to us, our Affiliates, you, any market, or any settlement or clearing system when you trade online (via Internet) or for any cause preventing us from performing any or all our obligations, any act of God, war, terrorism, malicious damage, civil commotion, industrial acts, any Exceptional Market Event, or acts and regulations of any governmental or supra national bodies or authorities which in our opinion prevent an orderly market in relation to your Orders (a “Force Majeure Event”). Upon the occurrence of a Force Majeure Event, we shall use commercially reasonable efforts to resume performance and we may give you written notice. Upon occurrence of a Force Majeure Event, all of our obligations under these Terms of Business shall be immediately suspended for the duration of such Force Majeure Event. Additionally, we may take any one or more of the following steps:
(a)
alter normal trading times;
(b)
alter the Margin requirements;
(c)
amend or vary these Terms of Business and any Transaction contemplated by these Terms of Business,
insofar as it is impractical or impossible for us to comply with our obligations;
(d)
close any or all open Transactions, cancel instructions and orders as we deem to be appropriate in the circumstances; and/or
(e)
take or omit to take all such other actions as we deem to be reasonably appropriate in the circumstances having regard to the positions of yours, ours, and other customers.
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Old Jan 24, 2015, 11:17am   #787
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tar View Post
Force majeure: Since we do not control signal power, its reception or routing via Internet, configuration of your equipment or reliability of its connections, we shall not be liable for any claims, losses, damages, costs or expenses, including attorney’s fees, caused directly or indirectly, by any breakdown or failure of any transmission or communication system or equipment or computer facility or trading software, whether belonging to us, our Affiliates, you, any market, or any settlement or clearing system when you trade online (via Internet) or for any cause preventing us from performing any or all our obligations, any act of God, war, terrorism, malicious damage, civil commotion, industrial acts, any Exceptional Market Event, or acts and regulations of any governmental or supra national bodies or authorities which in our opinion prevent an orderly market in relation to your Orders (a “Force Majeure Event”). Upon the occurrence of a Force Majeure Event, we shall use commercially reasonable efforts to resume performance and we may give you written notice. Upon occurrence of a Force Majeure Event, all of our obligations under these Terms of Business shall be immediately suspended for the duration of such Force Majeure Event. Additionally, we may take any one or more of the following steps:
(a)
alter normal trading times;
(b)
alter the Margin requirements;
(c)
amend or vary these Terms of Business and any Transaction contemplated by these Terms of Business,
insofar as it is impractical or impossible for us to comply with our obligations;
(d)
close any or all open Transactions, cancel instructions and orders as we deem to be appropriate in the circumstances; and/or
(e)
take or omit to take all such other actions as we deem to be reasonably appropriate in the circumstances having regard to the positions of yours, ours, and other customers.
Is that FXCM's? (there's no source). The fact they basically write 'and anything else we damned well want to include' into a contract doesn't make it legally enforceable as Force Majeure. I guess that's why you have lawyers and courts. FXCM will argue 'it was included in the contract', the opposing side will argue Force Majeure has a specific meaning and can't just be added to ad hoc. I don't much care either way, it will be interesting to follow how this progresses. Retail FX is a terrible business - its like those FOBT machines in the high street bookies specifically designed to part fools from their money (or to facilitate small scale money laundering). To be clear, I think the brokers do have claims to claw back negative equity (although it may not be commercially expedient to do so), but they can't use Force Majeure to avoid paying out on winning bets. As I'm not a lawyer, and so by definition anything I write on this is only a 'view', this'll be my last post on the subject as I'm clearly annoying you for some reason tar.
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Old Jan 24, 2015, 11:22am   #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack o'Clubs View Post
Is that FXCM's? (there's no source). .
Yes it is , i just found it interesting so i shared .
Attached Files
File Type: pdf FXCM_UK_Trading_Agreement_Spreadbetting.pdf (677.4 KB, 89 views)
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Old Jan 24, 2015, 1:29pm   #790
 
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I finish consider FXCM request. I decide they take me to court for £2000 if want!

I upload file as proof of false advertising if anybody want?
http://wikisend.com/download/177356/...dvertising.zip

Contents

1. video of below page with proof of date (1 min 25 seconds in)
http://www.fxcm.com/uk/resources/vid...t-is-leverage/
2. xps of execution risks (Page 4/5 - Margin Calls and Close Outs)
http://www.fxcm.com/uk/legal/trading-execution-risks/
3. xps of faqs - Margin Requirements (Is there a debit balance risk? Can I lose more money than I deposit? section)
http://www.fxcm.com/uk/support/faq/margin-requirements/
4. xps of Safety of Funds (FXCM's policy of No Debit Balances on FX and CFDs section)
http://www.fxcm.com/uk/advantages/safety-of-funds/
5. xps of their own analyst advising of of unexpected 'Force Majeure'
http://www.dailyfx.com/forex/fundame...-in-Focus.html

Too much for court to uphold I think! Come get some!

Last edited by Chiang124; Jan 24, 2015 at 6:57pm.
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Old Jan 24, 2015, 2:18pm   #791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripletrade View Post
As has been stated, this is why there are lawyers. In this instructional video for clients, the FXCM narrator categorically states: "FXCM guarantees a client's trading risk is limited to the equity in their account. This means you will never owe a deficit balance as a result of trading even if a significant amount of leverage is used. This is an important safeguard most forex brokers don't provide." The gist of his statement is clearly evident also in text on the screen.



A lawyer (heck, even clients) could argue that they are, at best, contradicting themselves and at worst misleading clients by going after negative balances since they gave an assurance that clients would "never owe a deficit balance". If they go after negative client balances all traders should reconsider doing business with them. Several brokers such as Dukascopy and FXPro have absolved clients re negative balances caused by the SNB decision and taken the loss. A comparison of broker actions in the aftermath should give traders a reasonable basis to evaluate where they want to put their money.

I have never used FXCM as their spreads were far too wide for my taste. My ECN broker had already reduced margins on EURCHF to 1:10 as precautionary risk management given possible ECB QE. It has not had any problems with the SNB debacle.
From FXCM's agreement :"you may not be responsible for debit balances directly resulting from trading activity, except in the case of a force majeure as detailed in Section 26.6; "

Section 26.6 :
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/fore...ml#post2479586
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Old Jan 24, 2015, 3:32pm   #792
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tar View Post
From FXCM's agreement :"you may not be responsible for debit balances directly resulting from trading activity, except in the case of a force majeure as detailed in Section 26.6; "

Section 26.6 :
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/fore...ml#post2479586
FXCM analyst predict 'Force Majeuere', so how is 'Force Majeure'? (See last post)

They should managed own risk,raised leverage so people not lose $100K's,then stick to promise which all over own website.

Instead they deceive people by make false promise, hide some of lines in document which allow them to back out of promise.

It called deceit!
It called untrusty!
It called liers!

If they wiped £2000 debt(and I did start day with +£8000 - Yes,my fault,not complain about that,I stupid!) as promise,respond to emails,not hide behind 'act of God' then I add more funds and start again.

Not now.I dont trust!

Should managed own risk.what sort broker is it?

I like platform,I like analysts,I not complain about rest.
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