FXCM Discussion

This is a discussion on FXCM Discussion within the Forex Brokers forums, part of the Commercial category; Originally Posted by morfisher Hi Jason Many thanks. I have for now opened a demo on FXCM. To our mutual ...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Mar 19, 2010, 8:23am   #31
 
>Apocalypto<'s Avatar
Joined Nov 2009
Re: FXCM Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by morfisher View Post
Hi Jason
Many thanks. I have for now opened a demo on FXCM.

To our mutual friend, Tradernumber7, truly fantastic reading your comments, not that I understand all of it!! I am completely new to all of this and terrified of loosing my shirt, so it's great to know there are people like you around to fight our corner, I look forward to following this with you and hopefully a greater understanding on my part will start to take shape.

Do you trade forex? Who with? Have you any advice for a complete novice apart from run a mile!

Regards.
there's no advice for you to run a mile. What the message is to you is to understand what FXCM is marketing. it's fine to trade with them as long as you know that the ND STP is bull****. it's a well thought out marketing plan.
>Apocalypto< is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2010, 9:41am   #32
Joined Jan 2010
Re: FXCM Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by >Apocalypto< View Post
there's no advice for you to run a mile. What the message is to you is to understand what FXCM is marketing. it's fine to trade with them as long as you know that the ND STP is bull****. it's a well thought out marketing plan.
So I assume that you still trade in full knowledge that the ND STP is bull with whoever your broker is then!
morfisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2010, 1:33pm   #33
 
>Apocalypto<'s Avatar
Joined Nov 2009
Re: FXCM Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by morfisher View Post
So I assume that you still trade in full knowledge that the ND STP is bull with whoever your broker is then!
Interactive Brokers

Last edited by >Apocalypto<; Mar 19, 2010 at 1:44pm.
>Apocalypto< is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2010, 2:45pm   #34
 
Jason Rogers's Avatar
Joined Jun 2009
Re: FXCM Discussion

Jason Rogers started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by morfisher View Post
So I assume that you still trade in full knowledge that the ND STP is bull with whoever your broker is then!
Hi morfisher,

If someone doesn't take the time to give detailed answers and information but instead gives answers that this or that is "bull****" then it's probably a red flag. Just as with any other financial decision, it's important to do due diligence which is why I recommend you pose questions to each broker. How are they executing your trades? and do they explain how their execution works in full detail? In addition to the normal things you would look into with any business...what is their customer service like, how secure are my funds, is the platform user friendly, etc.

Thanks for taking the time to test FXCM's demo to compare. And if you have any questions, I would be happy to help.

-Jason
Jason Rogers is offline Broker   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2010, 4:45pm   #35
Joined Jan 2010
Re: FXCM Discussion

FXCM have lots of different auto trading robots, if all these really work, how does FXCM make their money.
Thanks
morfisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 19, 2010, 7:10pm   #36
 
Jason Rogers's Avatar
Joined Jun 2009
Re: FXCM Discussion

Jason Rogers started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by morfisher View Post
FXCM have lots of different auto trading robots, if all these really work, how does FXCM make their money.
Thanks
Hi morfisher,

Are you referring to the Forex System Selector (FSS)? All of the systems on the (FSS) platform are provided by a third party developers. When you choose a system, the system developer earns a $1 commission per mini lot traded on your account. That is how they are compensated by you using their system.

All of the trades on the FSS platform are executed using NDD execution so FXCM is earning the pip mark up each time a trade is placed. Here on our website http://www.fxcm.com/fxcm-forex-execution.html , step 1 explains NDD execution and FXCM's compensation.

-Jason
Jason Rogers is offline Broker   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 20, 2010, 1:01am   #37
 
>Apocalypto<'s Avatar
Joined Nov 2009
Re: FXCM Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason rogers View Post
hi morfisher,

if someone doesn't take the time to give detailed answers and information but instead gives answers that this or that is "bull****" then it's probably a red flag.

-jason
nice personal spin JR

fxcm is marketing bull****. They mess with the spreads trade with a true ecn. Beware of fxcm nd stp it's a sale pitch

Last edited by >Apocalypto<; Mar 20, 2010 at 2:31am.
>Apocalypto< is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 20, 2010, 2:18am   #38
 
>Apocalypto<'s Avatar
Joined Nov 2009
Re: FXCM Discussion

Jason Rogers is paid to post on Trade2Win. He has a biased opinion that has to support FXCM.

their spreads on Active trader with the over priced comms and the Marking rubbish ND STP is no where near what Interactive Brokers or Dukascopy offer.

I have the opinion that FXCM is no different to any other bucket shop. Once you trade with the best, you can see straight though outfits like FXCM.

Last edited by >Apocalypto<; Mar 20, 2010 at 2:35am.
>Apocalypto< is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 22, 2010, 3:43pm   #39
 
Jason Rogers's Avatar
Joined Jun 2009
Re: FXCM Discussion

Jason Rogers started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by >Apocalypto< View Post
Jason Rogers is paid to post on Trade2Win. He has a biased opinion that has to support FXCM.
....
...Coming from someone who's nearly every post on T2W has been to promote IB or bash FXCM. I'm curious, have you even traded with FXCM before?

Of course I do work for FXCM so I will be biased. It's important that every trader test the demo, contact client support to evaluate customer service, understand execution method, etc to compare brokers. I won't go around saying "FXCM is the best because I said so!!! and if you don't agree with me it's bull**** ". Though some seem to think that's a compelling argument. Maybe some other brokers work that way .
Jason Rogers is offline Broker   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 22, 2010, 11:50pm   #40
 
>Apocalypto<'s Avatar
Joined Nov 2009
Re: FXCM Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
...Coming from someone who's nearly every post on T2W has been to promote IB or bash FXCM. I'm curious, have you even traded with FXCM before?

Of course I do work for FXCM so I will be biased. It's important that every trader test the demo, contact client support to evaluate customer service, understand execution method, etc to compare brokers. I won't go around saying "FXCM is the best because I said so!!! and if you don't agree with me it's bull**** ". Though some seem to think that's a compelling argument. Maybe some other brokers work that way .
FXCM = Marketing hype, that's about it.
>Apocalypto< is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 23, 2010, 10:56am   #41
gc1
Joined Jun 2005
Re: FXCM Discussion

It would be interesting to hear from some actual users of FXCM's service, particularly their "active trader" service. If there are any here please post your experience.

As people were mentioning IB I posted some comparisons below, FXCM on the left, IB on the right, one for last night, one for today. Apart from the modest size on the inside price for FXCM they compare quite well. These are just a static snapshot, To get a real feel you have to see it on your own screen. The FXCM side sometimes goes down to 0.2 wide and sometimes up to 0.8 while IB stays 0.5 most of the time and goes up 1.0 wide briefly at other times.

Other pairs have a similar comparison.

These are only demo accounts so I can't comment on fill speed or quality. The commission structure is also very different. I know FXCM has had a questionable reputation in the past but this does seem to indicate they are worth a look.

So, are there any real users of their service here ?


Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size.
gc1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 23, 2010, 11:22pm   #42
 
TraderNumber7's Avatar
Joined Jan 2010
Re: FXCM Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
FXCM's execution acted almost exclusively as a market maker up until 2006. However, your knowledge of FXCM's execution on NDD introduced to accounts in 2006 is incorrect.
You keep attempting to build a mountain out of a mole hill here, Jason. Why? Why do it in full plain view, when I've already exposed the true nature of FXCM in this thread already. It makes no sense to continue fighting for what does not exist. Why do you continue to do it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
Our NDD system doesn’t have a Dealing Desk that trades against you, plain and simple. Even on Micro, which is not currently NDD, we offer trading without re-quotes and intervention. And that will be NDD soon as well. This is what we offer to traders.
Red Herring, Jason. Nothing more and nothing less. Go re-read what I've put up in this thread on Interbank market size and scope - THEN - come back here and talk to me about NDD, STP and wide liquidity. It is all a smoke screen at FXCM, Jason. You know it and I most certainly know it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
As stated before, we don’t state that we offer interbank access.
Thank you for telling us what we already knew. Do you mind also telling us what the difference between Forex Access and Interbank Access actually looks like? Define: Forex -vs- Interbank.

I'm not looking for a White Paper on back-end or back-office solutions about physical "trade execution." I want a straight-up answer from FXCM on how it defines what it is selling to the Newbie Trader. Are you selling FXCM as a Forex Intermediary - or - as an Interbank Intermediary, or does FXCM even bother to make any distinction at all.

I have clearly articulated my position on this question already inside this thread, so there is no mistaking my view on the subject, White Paper aside.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
Take a look at www.fxcm.com, www.fxcm.co.uk, or any other of our marketing websites. A Google search of www.fxcm.com or www.fxcm.co.uk for the term “interbank” comes up with only 3 to 5 entries, and none of these references any claim that NDD offers “Interbank” pricing, liquidity, or execution in any way.
Oh, I see. Ok, so.....well.....if FXCM does not offer "Interbank Access," then what precisely does FXCM offer the Newbie Trader?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
What we claim is that FXCM’s No Dealing Desk Execution offers traders a trading system where “10 banks compete to provide tight spreads”.
Oh, I see!

You now drop the entire word "FOREX" from the discussion here and replace that word with a phrase "TRADING SYSTEM." How convenient is that. So, absolute NO Forex Access and absolute NO Interbank Access. Yet, in a previous post of yours right here inside this thread, you claimed that there was something flawed about my definition of what "Interbank" truly meant. Remember that statement you made, Jason?

You generally suggested that my definition of "Interbank" was over-broad and you then implied that the FXCM "10 Bank" offering, was also or likewise, Interbank too. You never implied that it was a "TRADING SYSTEM." You never did that until I pulled it out of you here in this thread.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
It’s pretty simple, either your broker has a bunch of dealers trading against you – possibly hunting stops, rejecting trades, and or requoting - or they don’t. If you trade on NDD, your broker won’t be trading against you. Trade with a Dealing Desk, and they might be.
Shifting to the side of the supposition where you know you don't reside and then merely re-quoting the "truth" as though you were actually a part of it, does not change or alter the true Bucket Shop Basket Weaving nature of FXCM. No amount of pontification about the truth, absent actual adherence to the truth will either alter the truth, or place you on the side of truth, if that is not where you already reside.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
That’s a good point. I’ll have that page changed.
If I actually needed the job, maybe, FXCM would hire me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
However, I'll point out that this reference is buried in the middle of an enormous block of text on a page that, in the past 12 months, has gotten between 5 and 38 page views per week.
Well, that's the point here, Jason! Newbies, are not likely to dig into this kind of stuff - but you won't pass it off on a seasoned vet. BTW - who put that "enormous block of text" on that web page anyway? Did the FXCM competitors put it there, just to confuse the Newbie Trader? Inquiring minds want to know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
It’s true, FXCM’s NDD system is not Autobahn or BARX or HSBCnet. We never claimed it was.
But, that assumes and implies that someone else did claim that you were and that never happened either. These were not even comparisons. These were mere facts that I wanted every Newbie to fully understand when they go to a Bucket Shop like FXCM and actually think that they are trading the real Interbank market in all of its depth and breadth - that's all I am doing here.

It is called: Truth In Advertising. Remember?

Just because you don't state a thing, does not mean that you fail to imply that same thing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
With FXCM, you can be trading with amounts in the thousands, not the millions, and most anyone can sign up within a couple business day. And by trading on NDD execution, even in lot sizes as small as 10k, the conflict of interest between trader and broker is eliminated.
And, all the while, never ONCE be trading the actual Forex or Interbank Market in all of its richness, as implied by most FX Brokers - either directly or indirectly (see last statement above). This is the dirty little secret behind what you guys are doing, Jason. I'm just putting a spotlight on it inside this thread, that's all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
Do Dealing Desk brokers have ticket volume limits because they’re taking the other side and can’t handle anything too big? Yes.
Thank you, finally.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
Is that the only reason to have ticket volume limits? No.
Oh, do explain.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
That’s a leap of logic that doesn’t hold up.
Prove it. Or, better yet, proof it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
We have ticket volume limits for a variety of reasons that enhance our product, not because we’re trading against you.
Let's see one of them, please.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
Convoys move at the speed of its slowest ship, so our blanket $50M per ticket limit applies to EUR/USD at London Open (which typically has massive liquidity) just as equally as it applies to GBP/NZD at Friday US Close (where it’s a surprise if anyone’s still even trading).
LOL! You can't be serious, Jason.

Is this proof or proper justification for why FXCM behaves just like any other Bucket Shop? The ole "Convoy" excuse might work on somebody less adept at this topic, Jason - but you are going to have to try a little bit harder, when attempting to pull the wool over my eyes.

Why? Have you looked at the executable pairs on the FXCM platform lately? Yeah, that's right, it is loaded with pairs with far less liquidity than merely the relative lacking liquidity of NZD linked pairs, Jason. So, if you are going to use the "slowest moving of the convoy" logic here, then that would also have to extend all the way down the food chain to pairs with far less liquidity then NZD alone. This blows your "slowest moving member" theory out of the water - entirely.

Why? Because, in order to apply that logic across the board of what the FXCM platform offers in terms of traded pairs, the max notional value per click would be far less than $50MM.

Not a very impressive argument, Jason. Now, reload and try again. Only this time, select a better logical premise and check the back-door logic before you make your declaration. (did you attend any debate classes in college?)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
The EUR/USD is not the reason for the limit, the GBP/NZD is.
That's incorrect.

Why? Because, in order for that to be true, you would have to hold all other currencies with far less liquidity than NZD, which are also executable on your platform, to the same logical standard, which would by definition reduce the single click notional value well below $50MM as a simply mathematical fact.

Logically, you can't have it both ways, Jason. This is a failed theory. Try again and check your premise, first. (you should have attended those debate classes!)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
We could talk about the average ticket size of retail traders; We could mention how you can call in for a bigger order; We could even get into conversations bank “industrial” feeds (which have a lot more liquidity, but speculators get quickly banned from) are like comparing apples to oranges, or talk about the volume levels that people typically still use phones to execute. We could talk about how this is the maximum amount available per click, and that you can click through several $50M trades very rapidly if you choose. If you want to put through trades of this size, it's best for you to view the market depth, whether EUR/USD or GBP/NZD, and the Active Trader platform is more suitable.
And, after we were done talking about all of that "work-around" nonsense, we STILL would NOT be talking about trading the real Interbank market with anywhere near its true depth and breadth of liquidity - and - that is the point to this exercise.

Furthermore, if this logic were to hold up (and it clearly does not), then such limitations would or should ONLY apply to those pairs linked to currencies with less than adequate liquidity, as defined by FXCM in its syllogistic reasoning for why the $50MM notional limit exists in the first place.

Bingo - just like that, I've proven the logic to be flawed from two different vantage points:

1) The lack of liquidity in executable pairs on the FXCM platform that extends well below NZD.

and...

2) The inverse of the logic that sets the syllogism for restricting the notional value down to $50MM in the first place.

Here's a hint, Jason:

Before you make an argument about anything (anything in life at all) - always (first) check the INVERSE of the premise for the argument to see if you might have left a back-door open, wide enough for your opponent to drive a Mack Truck through it.

Never leave the Inverse of your argument uncovered/exposed. Debate 101. You've done this now, five (5) times since you opened this thread and I engaged you. Exactly how many more times will you make this error in judgment, before you realize what it is costing you with every keystroke?

Tactically flawed debate. Easily defeated. You are not making FXCM look good, here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
Again, from our website “When a customer clicks on a price, they are actually clicking on a price from the bank that currently has the best bid or offer, plus our markup.” We run standard markups, usually a pip for most pairs. If you want to call that “manipulating the price”, then we’re just playing semantics. The key here is that the markups are consistent.
Oh, come on, please! Sell it to a Total Neophyte, but pleeeeeeze don't attempt to sell this stuff to me, Jason! You are insulting my intelligence at this point in our conversation here and I was really starting to like you! Seriously, I do like your demeanor.

I told you that one day, you can come work for me and I meant it.

The point to this exercise is to inform the Newbie that when they sign-up with FXCM and click on "that price," that they are not clicking on a price provided to them through their Intermediary from the full depth and breadth that the true Interbank market provides - AND - furthermore, that when they see such pricing on the FXCM trading platform, they are to be fully aware that the un-real Interbank pricing they see, has also been altered to include a gift wrapped guaranteed profit for the Bucket Shop that holds their Retail Account.

So, not only are the "prices" bogus, relative to true Interbank rates, but they are also manipulated by FXCM as well, by logical definition. Undeniably, true.

That is NOT merely a semantically driven delusion of mine. Nor, is it a distinction without a difference. In other words, the two concepts are not fungible, Jason. There are very tangible distinctions between what FXCM does and what a true Interbank or Forex Intermediary offering genuine straight through processing (STP) through a real ECN Hub Architecture does for its customers and for its liquidity providers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
I’m sorry if you don’t buy it, but it’s true.
I've proven it to be un-true.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
Many people didn’t believe that earth revolved around the sun, but that didn’t mean that Galileo was making things up.
Galileo, did not discover this fact. A full three hundred years before the birth of Jesus Christ, the Greeks had already laid the framework for heliocentricism, but it was not until Copernicus arrived with his mathematical model in his 16th century European environment, did the world begin to realize that just maybe, the world was not at the center of the Universe. I'm very well read on Einstein and Newton. I realize that Einstein gives Galileo credit for being the "father" of modern day model based astronomy and even modern science as we know it. However, nothing and no one can take away the mathematical conclusions that Copernicus made before Galileo. And, I'm certainly not going to be the one to disrespect the work of Copernicus, here.

Having said that, FXCM seems to think the 'world' is neither flat and nor round, but stupid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
The markup stays fixed throughout the trading day, every trading day. It’s consistent. We can change it if we want to, of course.
Which by definition means that FXCM is Bucket Shop, pure and simple.

How can the Intermediary alter that which is supposed to come from a free market place without manipulating the same in the process? Answer - you can't. You must be a price manipulating Bucket Shop to even consider such topics to be within the realm of natural protocol. Markup by definition means Price manipulation because you do not charge a flat street rate commission. FXCM would have more credibility if it had left the actual pricing alone and charged a straight-up commission that everybody can live with. Interfering with "in-bound market pricing" is "manipulation" by any definition. It matters not how one wishes to dance around the subject. Interception and Interference, is exactly the same thing, here.

FXCM's price feed should merely reflect what is actually taking place in the real Interbank market with a much wider array of depth and breadth; then charge a reasonable commission on the side, for all account types - period. No questions asked. That is the proper way to approach this business as an Intermediary, but this is not how the FXCM business model is established.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
Our liquidity providers (i.e. “the banks”) give us prices, we take the best Bid and Ask, add the consistent markup, and spit it out as our platform’s price. Simple as that.
Translation: Hybrid Bucket Shop.

Not to mention a straight-up admission that the entire STP claim is bogus, entirely! STP, is supposed to be against real prices. If you tamper with the "real price," then you can no longer offer STP, by definition, in my opinion. This is Pip Skimming, no less and you control the actual market prices being displayed on the trading platform - so, by definition, the prices cannot be true Interbank anymore after FXCM has altered them BEFORE they are displayed to the Trader.

This is not rocket science. I know rocket science when I see it and this is not it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
Call it a “mid-sized regional hub city”.
Ok, I'll grant that label.

But, it is still NOT true Interbank with its real depth and breadth of liquidity - not even close and my numbers (math) proves that fact beyond any shadow of any doubt, whatsoever. So, stop selling, by way of implication, that Newbies trading with FXCM will at the same time, somehow also be trading direct to the broad/deep end of the Interbank or the Forex pool. They are not - pure and simple. Therefore, no one at FXCM can make the claim that "Best Bid/Offer" from either Interbank or the Forex, is being delivered to the customer via the FXCM trading platform.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
So who are these “banks” that are on our system? I can’t disclose them because of NDA’s. I wish I could, but I simply can’t.
Some of your Competition has no problem whatsoever in disclosing who provides the liquidity under their trading platform, so why would FXCM enter into such an agreement with the very sources providing liquidity to those who use the FXCM platform? It makes no sense, whatsoever - especially, if they are "household names" in the Global Banking Industry.

What is FXCM hiding? Why only 10 Banks?

Your Competitors that use FXall shows off their liquidity proudly for the entire world to see:

FXAll

Your Competitor Divisa Capital FX shows off their relationships proudly for the entire world to see:

DCFX

Your Competitor LCG shows off their relationships proudly for the entire world to see:

LGC FX

Et, al.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
That’s just not true. Page 9 of the BIS Trienniel survey http://www.bis.org/publ/rpfxf07t.pdf?noframes=1 (table B.4) points out that only 12 banks in 2007 held 75% of UK FX volume (estimated to be 34% of the global total), and 10 banks held 75% of US total volume. You and I both know a lot of the same banks appear in both those lists. A lot of them are also providing us with liquidity.
What's not true? Precisely define what was stated that was not true, please. I'm very familiar with BIS and what they report. I was the first to post their report here on this forum for the edification of other traders in this community.

75% of U.K. + 75% of U.S. (total volume numbers) represents [b]far more liquidity than what FXCM is offering through its "10 Bank Product." Only a very desperate firm would even attempt to argue otherwise. That also leaves out of your equation, 25% of the rest of the world. Yet, your traders cannot execute on 0.000025% of the total daily volume contained in just one pair - the EURUSD This does not even include the other pairs!

Who are you trying to kid?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
I stand by my post that you said we have fixed spreads and this is not true.
Fixed simply means that FXCM so manipulates the spreads, such that they do not represent TRUE Interbank spreads from the vast depth and breadth of liquidity found on other real STP/ECN 'type' platforms. That's what "fixed spreads" mean. You can't promise "tight spreads" unless you are manipulating them to begin with - pure and simple. Why? Because that's part of what makes real Interbank liquidity so deep - it's continuously producing spreads that are by definition not tight, which cuts against the grain of the FXCM marketing hype were it virtually promises "tight spreads."

Now, what would truly produce so-called "tight spreads," would be more genuine competition on your trading platform and not the behind the scenes forced agreements between liquidity partners that make it "appear as though" more liquidity actually exists. Healthy competition has the net effect of lowering prices (Econ 101). If the FXCM platform had true Interbank depth and breadth of liquidity, there would often be times when the customer was trading with No Spread at all as seen on other, more liquid trading platforms.

A sophisticated Bucket by any other name, is still just fancy way to bathe your car.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
Neither are FXCM’s spreads “manipulated” by an algorithim for FXCM’s benefit. Our website explains how the NDD Price feed works: “When a customer clicks on a price, they are actually clicking on a price from the bank that currently has the best bid or offer, plus our markup.” http://www.fxcm.com/fxcm-forex-execution.html .
Then by physical and logical definition, FXCM must manipulate the price feed, or there would be no so-called "Best Bid or Offer." You keep trying to have your cake and eat it too. If the pricing was real and robust, then you would present liquidity at true depth of market.

You can't make the claim of No Price Manipulation out of one side of your mouth, then turn right around in the VERY SAME BREATH and claim "Best Bid Algorithm + Markup" out the other side of your mouth. If FXCM were the real deal, then it would simply charge a straight (flat) commission with no price feed manipulation; show all market depth available under its platform and allow the Trader to do what the Trader does naturally, which is engage in business transactions that are to the benefit of the Trader. Pure and simple. Such a platform would also provide the Trader with a full spectrum of access to a broader and deeper pool of liquidity that more closely approximates the full depth and breadth of what mainstream Interbank has to offer. This should be crystal clear at this point with zero ambiguity.

When FXCM claims "Best Bid" - that's a very misleading statement. Why? Because how on earth can FXCM or the Trader actually know what "Best Bid" even looks like, when FXCM is not providing the Trader with direct Interbank or Forex Access to anywhere near its rich and robust scope. Case in point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
Whether we choose to use a fixed pip mark-up or charge a commission as with FXCM Active Trader, NDD straight through processing is operating the same. You see the best bid or offer which is determined by the 10 banks quoting on our platform.
And, ONLY from those "10 Banks" - NOT even remotely a truer glimpse into the real Interbank depth or breadth.

I think that I have proven (time and time again) inside this thread, precisely what makes FXCM a Hybrid Bucket Shop and nothing more. As long as the Newbie is fully aware of this fact BEFORE they blindly open an account with FXCM, then that's fine by me.

I have no axe to grind here - but I am sick and tired of all the hype surrounding this entire question of whether or not Retailers are trading Forex, Interbank or the Market Maker's Proprietary Liquidity Pool.

Fact:

When you trade with FXCM, you are NOT trading true Interbank prices. You are trading a Proprietary Liquidity Pool that has been constructed expressly for the purpose of sequestering a niche Retail market that thinks it is actually trading at Interbank levels. This is the truth about FXCM and Bucket Shops like it. And, nobody is going to romantically argue to the contrary successfully, here. Nobody.

I could give you dozens of prime example of what makes FXCM just another Bucket Shop. For example: Order Types. This is a telling sign that you are dealing with a Bucket Shop of some kind, one way or another. Just look at the total lack of Order Functionality built-into the FXCM trading platform. The most advanced order type that you can enter is an OCO - that's it, folks! Now, compare that to other types of trading platforms that allow the Trader true (genuine) flexibility in their order execution.

Functionality such as:

Variable Pegged Orders
Iceberg Orders
Hidden Orders
TWAP Orders, etc.,

...all such functionality helps the Trader to maximize order entry and as a direct result, helps to optimize profit potential.

Yes, in most cases, you will need larger amounts for opening accounts on platforms that offer this kind of flexible order processing on the front and back end, however, the Newbie needs to know some of the things that differentiate the Bucket Shop, from a true Interbank Intermediary.

Maximum Order Size, is another dead give-a-way that you are most likely dealing with some kind of Hybrid Bucket Shop and trading on either their books or through their Private Proprietary Liquidity Pool and NOT the full scope of Interbank.

There are plenty of other readily identifiable markers that tell you what you are dealing with, when you open up your trading account, but I am absolutely certain that I've gone above and beyond what it necessary to prove beyond a shadow of any doubt, that FXCM is a Hybrid Bucket Shop of Epic Proportions in the Retail FX "niche."

Trade there and anywhere (for that matter) at your own risk- but especially be aware of what makes a Bucket, a Bucket, indeed.
__________________
TradeSMART, by Always Managing your Positions.
TraderNumber7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 23, 2010, 11:53pm   #43
 
TraderNumber7's Avatar
Joined Jan 2010
Re: FXCM Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by gc1 View Post
So, are there any real users of their service here ?


Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size.
Well, I'm not an FXCM customer, but since you posted some pretty static pictures showing FXCM "liquidity," I thought it might be reasonable to post something dynamic, showing a competitors "liquidity" for the same pair.

Of course, both yours and the video below were produced on completely different dates and obviously at completely different times. The date of this video just happens to be December 20, 2009.

Note: On the youtube player, click the face of the video after it starts to watch the video on Youtube's site. After that, click the youtube player's 720p HD control to get better clarity overall and to better see the EURUSD liquidity levels.

__________________
TradeSMART, by Always Managing your Positions.
TraderNumber7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 24, 2010, 4:16pm   #44
 
Jason Rogers's Avatar
Joined Jun 2009
Re: FXCM Discussion

Jason Rogers started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by TraderNumber7 View Post
Not a very impressive argument, Jason. Now, reload and try again. Only this time, select a better logical premise and check the back-door logic before you make your declaration. (did you attend any debate classes in college?)
Hi TN7,

....Getting a little deja vu seeing the same questions asked which were previously addressed. Am I going to go through your 9 page post and reply again... No. Frankly because it's a waste of time to re-address what I've already commented on and explained how NDD works.

Second, our execution works exactly as explained on our website and in previous posts. If you don't think so, then that's what you think no matter how incorrect it may be. I respect your previous knowledge of the interbank market; however, much of what you are saying is incorrect about FXCM's execution and what we offer or misleading. Our website and my posts go into much more detail on how our execution works than with just about any broker out there. I'll reiterate the basics on what we offer in terms of NDD and how it works (the in depth example can be found on the previous post).

What is NDD?
No Dealing Desk execution is what we offer retail individual forex traders. In the retail market, there are two basic types of execution you can choose between: dealing desk or no dealing desk. In the dealing desk setup, the broker makes the market and can take on the risk of your trade. In other words, if you lose they can profit and vice versa. That risk is their's to manage. On NDD, each transaction on a one-to-one basis is offset with one of 10 banks providing quotes on FXCM's platform. The risk is eliminated.

Who cares if my broker trades against me?
The problem comes with how a dealing desk manages the risk using tools such as dealer intervention, re-quotes, entry order, stop, and limit restrictions, banning particular types of EA's, etc. In the end, the broker's profitability trumps yours.

Is FXCM making a market for forex traders?
No, FXCM does not create a market for forex transactions on No Dealing Desk execution. FXCM Micro trades are currently executed through the FXCM dealing desk, and this will be changing in the upcoming months once NDD is introduced to micro accounts.

Who takes the other side of the trade on NDD?
Every trade is executed back to back with one of the world's premier banks or financial institutions, which compete to provide FXCM with bid and ask prices.

How are the quotes determined?
A best bid/offer engine sorts best bid/offer and marks them up with our standard fixed markup on the majors. This markup acts as the commission on the trade. When a customer clicks on a price, they are actually clicking on a price from the bank that currently has the best bid or offer, plus our markup.

Can I pay a commission instead of a mark-up?
Yes, if traders want to see the raw spread without a mark-up and pay commissions instead, then the Active Trader setup is available on either the FX Trading Station II, MT4 or the Active Trader platform. The Active Trader platform gives you the added benefit of depth of market if that is something you need access to.


This is the NDD product we offer. Is FXCM the best? FXCM is one of the world's largest forex brokers, but by all means compare yourself...platform, execution, customer service, resources, education. Demos are available through our website as well http://www.fxcm.co.uk/free-forex-accounts.jsp. Traders of all levels can use our service from a micro account starting with as little as $25, standard accounts can start with as little as $2,000, and the entry level for Active Trader is $25,000.

-Jason
Jason Rogers is offline Broker   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 24, 2010, 4:20pm   #45
 
Jason Rogers's Avatar
Joined Jun 2009
Re: FXCM Discussion

Jason Rogers started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by TraderNumber7 View Post
Well, I'm not an FXCM customer, but since you posted some pretty static pictures showing FXCM "liquidity," I thought it might be reasonable to post something dynamic, showing a competitors "liquidity" for the same pair.
Active Trader demo accounts are available through the website http://www.fxcm.co.uk/free-forex-accounts.jsp

-Jason
Jason Rogers is offline Broker   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FXCM Announces the Winner of FXCM Automated Trading Challenge jsales Forex Brokers 0 Dec 13, 2010 5:39pm
FXCM Launches FXCM Labs for Beta Testers jsales Brokerages 0 Aug 4, 2010 2:37pm
Notice to FXCM LLC (FXCM U.S.) Traders: How to use Stops and Limits after July 31 jsales Forex Brokers 2 Jul 7, 2009 3:52pm
TA v FA Discussion FTSE Beater Technical Analysis 12 Sep 25, 2003 11:27pm

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)