Why did price spike on my broker but not on the FTSE?

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Old Sep 14, 2017, 12:49pm   #1
et.
Joined Mar 2012
Why did price spike on my broker but not on the FTSE?

Imagine you are trading £50 per point and got in at the perfect point end of wave 2 ... and then this happened.

Click the image to open in full size.

Fortunately I was trading only 50 pence per point. If I was trading serious money I would have been annoyed because the FTSE100 does not seem to have done the same move.

Was my analysis wrong or is one of these charts (Google and Yahoo data for FTSE 100) wrong?

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Edit: I was shorting and my stop, somewhere above the high, was taken out by the spike that wasn't there on the actual? FTSE 100.
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The trend shines ahead a light which shows the wall, where it has to turn back. But the torch can be turned by a higher power before it gets to the wall and the light will shine on a different wall.

LT outlook: FTSE to preliminary 7500 with possibility of flash crash to 4500 first (last updated: 14/09/2012).

Last edited by et.; Sep 14, 2017 at 1:49pm.
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Old Sep 14, 2017, 1:06pm   #2
Joined Feb 2002
BoE interest rate announcement was at 12. FTSE down, £ up on the comments made re future rate rises.

I don't use wave analysis so I can't say your analysis on the FTSE100 was wrong. However, the index hasn't been a trend-following buy for many weeks.
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Old Sep 14, 2017, 1:30pm   #3
et.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomorton View Post
BoE interest rate announcement was at 12. FTSE down, £ up on the comments made re future rate rises.

I don't use wave analysis so I can't say your analysis on the FTSE100 was wrong. However, the index hasn't been a trend-following buy for many weeks.
What I meant was, why is there a wild divergence in the data between the chart that I was using and the FTSE data displayed by Google and Yahoo?

On Google and Yahoo FTSE100 data there was no spike up to an extra high.

On this chart that I was using there was.
__________________
The trend shines ahead a light which shows the wall, where it has to turn back. But the torch can be turned by a higher power before it gets to the wall and the light will shine on a different wall.

LT outlook: FTSE to preliminary 7500 with possibility of flash crash to 4500 first (last updated: 14/09/2012).
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Old Sep 14, 2017, 1:33pm   #4
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et. started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomorton View Post
BoE interest rate announcement was at 12. FTSE down, £ up on the comments made re future rate rises.

I don't use wave analysis so I can't say your analysis on the FTSE100 was wrong. However, the index hasn't been a trend-following buy for many weeks.
Oh yes, I was shorting. Also notice the head and shoulders pattern.
__________________
The trend shines ahead a light which shows the wall, where it has to turn back. But the torch can be turned by a higher power before it gets to the wall and the light will shine on a different wall.

LT outlook: FTSE to preliminary 7500 with possibility of flash crash to 4500 first (last updated: 14/09/2012).
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Old Sep 14, 2017, 1:53pm   #5
Joined Feb 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by et. View Post
What I meant was, why is there a wild divergence in the data between the chart that I was using and the FTSE data displayed by Google and Yahoo?

On Google and Yahoo FTSE100 data there was no spike up to an extra high.

On this chart that I was using there was.

Sorry. Yes,I don't see the spike on Google or Yahoo either but it is there on my SB firm's chart also. Top is about 8pts above earlier high.

The SB firm is quite likely to have pushed out their spread just at the time of this announcement. Normally the spread is 1pt. I assume their chart prints the mid-price between their bid and their offer so to take the mid to 7398.98, they would have had to widen the spread to over 15pts. Maybe they did. Maybe your broker did likewise?
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Old Sep 14, 2017, 2:05pm   #6
et.
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et. started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomorton View Post
Sorry. Yes,I don't see the spike on Google or Yahoo either but it is there on my SB firm's chart also. Top is about 8pts above earlier high.
Maybe they get the data from the same company?

There is a note in the bottom right of the trading screen which says 'indicative prices' but you would think by that they would mean being out by 0.1 - 1 point, not 10 points.

Click the image to open in full size.

Spike measures 14.8.

Quote:
The SB firm is quite likely to have pushed out their spread just at the time of this announcement. Normally the spread is 1pt. I assume their chart prints the mid-price between their bid and their offer so to take the mid to 7398.98, they would have had to widen the spread to over 15pts. Maybe they did. Maybe your broker did likewise?
What do you mean by the spread? The spread I entered in at was 1pt, and why would changing my spread make the price for everyone spike up?

Here's the 10 second data

Click the image to open in full size.

Even have 1 second data

Click the image to open in full size.

That's amazing. How can anyone have traded that, creating those gaps, wicks etc?
__________________
The trend shines ahead a light which shows the wall, where it has to turn back. But the torch can be turned by a higher power before it gets to the wall and the light will shine on a different wall.

LT outlook: FTSE to preliminary 7500 with possibility of flash crash to 4500 first (last updated: 14/09/2012).

Last edited by et.; Sep 14, 2017 at 2:11pm.
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Old Sep 14, 2017, 2:50pm   #7
Joined Feb 2002
I don't understand it though wish I could advise.

I don't trade intra-day so I don't have to understand and manage these sorts of risks.
But to be blunt, you do......
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Old Sep 14, 2017, 2:54pm   #8
Joined Apr 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by et. View Post
How can anyone have traded that, creating those gaps, wicks etc?
Someone who understands shops and markets should be able to trade that fine. Now that you have more idea on how it works, maybe you will do better next time.

People seem to be too scared to mention it now, I'll do it for them. The shop is SFA regulated so they are legit. Everything they do are legit.
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Old Sep 14, 2017, 3:07pm   #9
et.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnlightenedJoe View Post
Someone who understands shops and markets should be able to trade that fine. Now that you have more idea on how it works, maybe you will do better next time.
That last chart is the one second time frame. Nobody trades at the one second time frame.

Only a computer program can trade that fast. What the one second timeframe screen cap suggests is that this is real data rather than a sudden jump up.

BUT! If it is real data then why did this not happen on the presumably official data that is shown on Google and Yahoo UK100 charts? Surely the market data should be identical - it normally is.

This spike comes from a data provider who (likely) provides data to multiple SB firms.

The SB firm might not be directly responsible for the spike in price, whatever the cause of it was.
__________________
The trend shines ahead a light which shows the wall, where it has to turn back. But the torch can be turned by a higher power before it gets to the wall and the light will shine on a different wall.

LT outlook: FTSE to preliminary 7500 with possibility of flash crash to 4500 first (last updated: 14/09/2012).
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Old Sep 14, 2017, 3:15pm   #10
Joined Apr 2016
SB shops don't use futures prices that google/yahoo show. SB prices are loosely based on the futures price.
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Old Sep 14, 2017, 3:21pm   #11
et.
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et. started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnlightenedJoe View Post
SB shops don't use futures prices that google/yahoo show. SB prices are loosely based on the futures price.
What does that mean?

Google calls its data "INDEXFTSE real-time data"
Intra-day data may be provided by Interactive Data Real-Time Services, Inc.
INDEXFTSE FTSE Indexes Realtime

Yahoo uses delayed price. Why use futures prices if your prices are delayed? Might as well use the real price.
__________________
The trend shines ahead a light which shows the wall, where it has to turn back. But the torch can be turned by a higher power before it gets to the wall and the light will shine on a different wall.

LT outlook: FTSE to preliminary 7500 with possibility of flash crash to 4500 first (last updated: 14/09/2012).
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Old Sep 14, 2017, 3:25pm   #12
Joined Apr 2016
It means shop prices needn't correlate exactly with futures prices.
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Old Sep 14, 2017, 3:53pm   #13
et.
Joined Mar 2012
et. started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnlightenedJoe View Post
SB shops don't use futures prices that google/yahoo show. SB prices are loosely based on the futures price.
You contradict yourself in two sentences - are you saying SB firms use futures prices? Or that Google and Yahoo use futures prices? Where do Google and Yahoo say they use futures prices?
__________________
The trend shines ahead a light which shows the wall, where it has to turn back. But the torch can be turned by a higher power before it gets to the wall and the light will shine on a different wall.

LT outlook: FTSE to preliminary 7500 with possibility of flash crash to 4500 first (last updated: 14/09/2012).
et. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 14, 2017, 4:00pm   #14
Joined Apr 2016
SB shops don't use futures prices

futures prices that google/yahoo show
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Old Sep 14, 2017, 5:01pm   #15
et.
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et. started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnlightenedJoe View Post
SB shops don't use futures prices

futures prices that google/yahoo show
Thanks - but how do you know these are futures prices on Google and Yahoo, not the real price? Yahoo logs the prices in an archive. Doesn't tell you they aren't the real price. You are given to believe that they are the actual price.

My SB firm has a UK100 futures for September and December. The September data looks identical to the regular UK100, with the price spike. If Google and Yahoo use this futures data why don't they have the price spike?

At 14.04-14.05 on the December there is a 100+ point price spike that is not present on any other chart but 'flash crashes' and rises are a thing with algorithmic trading. What I'm questioning is the discrepancy between the data that the SB firms receive and the data received by Google and Yahoo.

Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
The trend shines ahead a light which shows the wall, where it has to turn back. But the torch can be turned by a higher power before it gets to the wall and the light will shine on a different wall.

LT outlook: FTSE to preliminary 7500 with possibility of flash crash to 4500 first (last updated: 14/09/2012).
et. is offline   Reply With Quote
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