Why did price spike on my broker but not on the FTSE?

This is a discussion on Why did price spike on my broker but not on the FTSE? within the Forex Brokers forums, part of the Commercial category; Originally Posted by wisefoolx Well as the OP said if his size was bigger, then his account would have taken ...

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Old Sep 17, 2017, 7:30pm   #31
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Originally Posted by wisefoolx View Post
Well as the OP said if his size was bigger, then his account would have taken a much larger hit. What is big is subjective. As he also said he is a begginer and using very small stakes which is wise but of course things are much different when size becomes larger. So to him 5/point may be a large size, to me it is not, but to someone else a CTA perhaps 50 - 100 contracts is normal. At least the OP is honest and seems to be on the right path.
Are you saying 50 to 100 contracts is what you meant by "decent size" ? i.e. £3.6M to £7.2M exposure?

Is this the kind of size you trade ?
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Old Sep 17, 2017, 8:33pm   #32
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Are you saying 50 to 100 contracts is what you meant by "decent size" ? i.e. £3.6M to £7.2M exposure?

Is this the kind of size you trade ?
No, as I said a CTA trades that.

CTA = An American concept whereby individual / small ventures passs SFC type exams get registered and can then legally market and trade their own and clients money, mainly on exchange products and more direct startegies.

" Mini hedge " funds if you like, without all the fancy algos et al.

So large size is relative but whatever, 50p / 1 pound a point is beginner's stuff. I hope you realise that size plays a major role; can't use the same strategy for mini stakes as you do when trade larger and larger sizes.

As you alluded a CTA would indeed have millions exposure which is why they almost always use stop losses in 1 form or another. A 100 point drop for a penny trader is nothing but for larger sizes (even for large individual traders never mind CTAs) will be disasterous.

Last edited by wisefoolx; Sep 17, 2017 at 8:42pm.
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Old Sep 17, 2017, 9:52pm   #33
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thanks for the info i appreciate you taking the time to explain.. (and good to have an idea of your size! )

i think you're kinda missing the essential part of moving beyond the "beginner stage" though. the size that someone trades is entirely up to them. what takes you past the beginner stage is that you start making money, with some consistency, rather than losing it. you could even say breaking-even takes you to the next stage. that's how i basically define it.
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Old Sep 17, 2017, 10:45pm   #34
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thanks for the info i appreciate you taking the time to explain.. (and good to have an idea of your size! )

i think you're kinda missing the essential part of moving beyond the "beginner stage" though. the size that someone trades is entirely up to them. what takes you past the beginner stage is that you start making money, with some consistency, rather than losing it. you could even say breaking-even takes you to the next stage. that's how i basically define it.
Well, I don't know about that since I was just addressing the OP's point about trading small as a begginer. But when you start talking about the "beginner stage" the it all becomes very subjective.

I suppose the larger you trade the more beginner you think smaller sizes are.

The point was that trading in larger sizes IS different. For example, you can trade without a SL if you trade small say 1 ppp and you have 500 pound on margin then you could well be given a margin call if you have gone down by 250 points (50%). To hold this position you will have to top up by 250 pound, not a large sum.

Eventually the market will recover and you may eek out say 30points.

However , If you trade 10ppp and you have 5000 in account, you will have to cough up 2500 pound . That's a huge difference and a large chunk out of most ordinary people's finances.

So trading w/o a SL, hitting and hoping is not appropriate for larger size and 10ppp is nothing special.

Strategies for small sizes don't scale up well. That is the point.
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Old Sep 17, 2017, 10:53pm   #35
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Originally Posted by wisefoolx View Post
As you alluded a CTA would indeed have millions exposure which is why they almost always use stop losses in 1 form or another. A 100 point drop for a penny trader is nothing but for larger sizes (even for large individual traders never mind CTAs) will be disasterous.
What do you know about it ? Are you a CTA ?
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Old Sep 17, 2017, 11:19pm   #36
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Well, I don't know about that since I was just addressing the OP's point about trading small as a begginer. But when you start talking about the "beginner stage" the it all becomes very subjective.

I suppose the larger you trade the more beginner you think smaller sizes are.

The point was that trading in larger sizes IS different. For example, you can trade without a SL if you trade small say 1 ppp and you have 500 pound on margin then you could well be given a margin call if you have gone down by 250 points (50%). To hold this position you will have to top up by 250 pound, not a large sum.

Eventually the market will recover and you may eek out say 30points.

However , If you trade 10ppp and you have 5000 in account, you will have to cough up 2500 pound . That's a huge difference and a large chunk out of most ordinary people's finances.

So trading w/o a SL, hitting and hoping is not appropriate for larger size and 10ppp is nothing special.

Strategies for small sizes don't scale up well. That is the point.
i know the points you were making previously you didn't need to reiterate them. however, thanks for expanding on how size can effect strategy - it made me think

What i was referring to is only your "50p/100p a point is beginner's stuff" type comments, this is where you sound like you are missing the point about trading, not the thread or whatever

Last edited by Kaeso; Sep 17, 2017 at 11:39pm.
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Old Sep 17, 2017, 11:42pm   #37
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What i was referring to is only your "50p/100p a point is beginner's stuff" type comments
I was agreeing with the OP but if your view is different from that so be it, I don't see the problem.
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Old Sep 18, 2017, 12:04am   #38
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I was agreeing with the OP but if your view is different from that so be it, I don't see the problem.
i dont recall OP saying he was a beginner
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Old Sep 18, 2017, 12:50am   #39
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i dont recall OP saying he was a beginner
Could be a case of: it takes one to know one.
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Old Sep 18, 2017, 2:14am   #40
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i dont recall OP saying he was a beginner
He did , see #19
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Old Sep 18, 2017, 12:52pm   #41
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I'm only trading 50p-£1 a point and I'm not a beginner. Size doesn't indicate skill just because you have loads of money that £1 a point is meaningless to you.
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Old Sep 18, 2017, 2:53pm   #42
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I'm only trading 50p-£1 a point and I'm not a beginner. Size doesn't indicate skill just because you have loads of money that £1 a point is meaningless to you.
Already been done, can label yourself what you want but:

The point was that trading in larger sizes IS different.Strategies for small sizes don't scale up well. That is the point.
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Old Sep 18, 2017, 3:44pm   #43
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Originally Posted by wisefoolx View Post

I suppose the larger you trade the more beginner you think smaller sizes are.

The point was that trading in larger sizes IS different. For example, you can trade without a SL if you trade small say 1 ppp and you have 500 pound on margin then you could well be given a margin call if you have gone down by 250 points (50%). To hold this position you will have to top up by 250 pound, not a large sum.

Eventually the market will recover and you may eek out say 30points.

However , If you trade 10ppp and you have 5000 in account, you will have to cough up 2500 pound . That's a huge difference and a large chunk out of most ordinary people's finances.

So trading w/o a SL, hitting and hoping is not appropriate for larger size and 10ppp is nothing special.

Strategies for small sizes don't scale up well. That is the point.
Thats not a "small stakes" strategy though, that's just using no risk management because you think £500 is chump change. The other guy might think that £5000 is chump change and do exactly the same thing. Somebody else considerably richer might think 50k is chump change.
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Old Sep 18, 2017, 3:52pm   #44
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Thats not a "small stakes" strategy though, that's just using no risk management because you think £500 is chump change.
What do you mean ? I never said ' using no risk management because you think £500 is chump change ' . I said no risk management with larger sums would be very difficult if not impossible.

That IS just one of the ways mini size strategies are irrelevant to larger size traders.

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The other guy might think that £5000 is chump change and do exactly the same thing. Somebody else considerably richer might think 50k is chump change.
Yes, I stated that many times BUT 0-100ppp is the bottom of the barrel, it is a mathematical fact, I'm not dissing but just stating so we know that the scale is absolute at some point.
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Old Sep 18, 2017, 4:15pm   #45
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Why would you use no risk management on small accounts but use it on large accounts? Shouldn't you trade these both the same? I have a 1k account that I use standard risk management on because that's all I have set aside for my trading journal, should I use a "small stakes" strategy and just go £1 a point with no stop?
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Last edited by brewski1984; Sep 18, 2017 at 4:27pm.
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