Pls advice ! what am I doing wrong ?

Hi
Been trading for a while (few months) primarily with IG index.
Read various good books such as @Come into my Trading Room@ Dr Elder, Toni Turners Day trading books, know a little about charting, MACD MAs, Stochastics but am still generally losing - not as badly as when I started but barely breaking even.

My latest strategy (after having a mixed return from trading stocks (FTSE & DOW)
is trading FX - basically use the following technique:

Look for MA 22/11 crossovers on a 30 minute chart (IG advanced charting allows notifications of these) check the crossing point out... if MACD looks good (+2 for buys -2 for sells), Stochastics look ok (high for buys, low for sells) and Dr Elder's Elder Ray has appropriate sell or buy values I may trade. I wait and watch ... but still inevitably lose!

I feel I am @nearly there@ but am clearly missing something.
With the stocks I was making a list of target stocks, identify if the trends from a Weekly/Daily/Hourly perspective and buy or sell in the opposite direction of the major daily/hourly trend. Had some luck with this @system@ but the losses although smaller in numvber than the wins, are inevitably wiping out the winning profits.

Funds and pride running low now so any advice pls ?

Hopfully other newbies may appreciate this as I am sure I am not the only one on this lonely road !

Cheers
P

pleaper said:

identify if the trends from a Weekly/Daily/Hourly perspective and buy or sell in the opposite direction of the major daily/hourly trend.

Click to expand...

Think about this....you're asking for a lot of trouble. Why would you try that?

I bet the reason you're losing is because you're counter trend trading and holding for big profits. So you get in a trade, see a small profit, try run it like everyone says and then end up losing?

Hi Masquerade,

Are you suggesting that "holding for big profits" in general is pointless, or that "holding for big profits" during a counter trend trade is pointless?

Masquerade said:

Think about this....you're asking for a lot of trouble. Why would you try that?

I bet the reason you're losing is because you're counter trend trading and holding for big profits. So you get in a trade, see a small profit, try run it like everyone says and then end up losing?

Click to expand...

amit1986 said:

Hi Masquerade,

Are you suggesting that "holding for big profits" in general is pointless, or that "holding for big profits" during a counter trend trade is pointless?

Click to expand...

Before addressing this i'd just like to add it sounds like your profits are much smaller than your losses which is going to be a bad combination unless you have some huge edge. Either reduce stop size to make it more profitable but then you need more precision in entry or change your direction and trade with the trend as it's your friend (so they say.) Either way, if your funds are limited then you haven't got much time to try new things. So as much as I hate to say it - try demo just to try a few things out and when you think you've got it sorted go try live but you don't have to go huge if you're uncertain but the live has value in other aspects such as discipline/psychology.

Holding for big profits is not pointless - in fact the big trades will really help your account and as they say "run your winners." But of course you have to take your profit eventually and be realistic. The only problem with going for big profits when holding counter-trend is it's very difficult to get big profits unless something significant occurs to break the general trend. If not, it's a bit like swimming against the tide and if you keep swimming eventually you'll get swept away. The way to counter-trend trade is get in and get out fast. There's more money in trading with the direction of the trend and even if you're not so precise on your entry the trend will help you out.

Seems to me that the problem is that you're jumping from one strategy to another. The key is to find a strategy and just stick to it. When looking for a strategy, try to identify two things:

1) Do you inherently understand the strategy. Not just why it works, but can your mind come to grips as to why it would work. Personally, I don't like trading stochastics, oscillators, MA crossovers, etc, so I never made any effort to try them. Instead, I found a strategy that my mind accepted and I knew worked (cause others were using it) and am just sticking through the losses and the gains until I become consistent.

2) A strategy that you know works. So it's better to read up on a strategy cause you know there are other people out there making money off of it.

Once you come up with a strategy that satisfies the above two criteria, just stick with it. Trade small so that your losses won't wipe out your trading account and that you stay in this game till you finally figure out your mistakes. When you do look back on your mistakes, try not to blame the system. The system works - you know it cause others are making money off of it. This way, you know it's something that YOU are doing wrong and YOU must fix.

It takes time. Trading for "a few months" isn't nearly enough time you need to spend to become consistent. If it were, everyone would be doing it.

Hope this helps!

pleaper said:

Hi
Been trading for a while (few months) primarily with IG index.
Read various good books such as @Come into my Trading Room@ Dr Elder, Toni Turners Day trading books, know a little about charting, MACD MAs, Stochastics but am still generally losing - not as badly as when I started but barely breaking even.

My latest strategy (after having a mixed return from trading stocks (FTSE & DOW)
is trading FX - basically use the following technique:

Look for MA 22/11 crossovers on a 30 minute chart (IG advanced charting allows notifications of these) check the crossing point out... if MACD looks good (+2 for buys -2 for sells), Stochastics look ok (high for buys, low for sells) and Dr Elder's Elder Ray has appropriate sell or buy values I may trade. I wait and watch ... but still inevitably lose!

I feel I am @nearly there@ but am clearly missing something.
With the stocks I was making a list of target stocks, identify if the trends from a Weekly/Daily/Hourly perspective and buy or sell in the opposite direction of the major daily/hourly trend. Had some luck with this @system@ but the losses although smaller in numvber than the wins, are inevitably wiping out the winning profits.

Funds and pride running low now so any advice pls ?

Hopfully other newbies may appreciate this as I am sure I am not the only one on this lonely road !

Cheers
P

Click to expand...

Very nicely said! Personally, I don't countertrend trade at all - it significantly reduces the probability of a trade working out. But my trading methodology does utilize the whole "let your profits run" adage. I guess it is important to be realistic and when you see some money on the table, take some off. But that's not the point of this thread anyway, so I won't get into that.

Good post though masquerade!

Amit

Masquerade said:

Holding for big profits is not pointless - in fact the big trades will really help your account and as they say "run your winners." But of course you have to take your profit eventually and be realistic. The only problem with going for big profits when holding counter-trend is it's very difficult to get big profits unless something significant occurs to break the general trend. If not, it's a bit like swimming against the tide and if you keep swimming eventually you'll get swept away. The way to counter-trend trade is get in and get out fast. There's more money in trading with the direction of the trend and even if you're not so precise on your entry the trend will help you out.

Click to expand...

amit1986 said:

Very nicely said! Personally, I don't countertrend trade at all - it significantly reduces the probability of a trade working out. But my trading methodology does utilize the whole "let your profits run" adage. I guess it is important to be realistic and when you see some money on the table, take some off. But that's not the point of this thread anyway, so I won't get into that.

Good post though masquerade!

Amit

Click to expand...

Just speaking from experience. You name it, i've probably done it or given it a good go trying! I know the feeling of being in a trade with a tight stop counter-trend, thinking about taking 10 pips only to try run it and see it disappear in a matter of minutes. Then the one time you close for 10 it decides to fall much more. It's just a big headache and difficult to do especially if you're starting off. It's safer to go with the trend so long as you're going with general trend and bias.

I'll try and be around to address further questions tomorrow - I don't think there will be much to add for tonight.

Good luck

Thanks Guys - some good points.
I am now reviewing all my strategies and will reduce @bets@ to 0.1 of a pound wherever possible until I get the win / lose ration right. Will renew my demo account with Etrade and see howe that goes - though I think it takes really money to get my mind focused. Not that I am greedy - I have the intention of making say a tenner a day (average) and see where i go from there.

It is certainly a big challenge to get trading 100% correct and it seems you have to keep fine tuning techniques all the time. Have to say though that I do like (and will continue to use indicators: Amit you say you do not use them - I do find them very useful for guiding when to enter a trade
(combination of 11/20 MA cross with appropriate MACD values - high for buy, low for sell) do allow you to focus in on the market - equally when the trade is running you can get a feel for how it is running. Having said that I will adjust the 11/20 crossover to anticipate an order level - i.e. if the MA cross for a buy is at 100 for a buy set one up looking at cycles for the last month and guestimating where the entry should be.

Couple of other points-
1. What do you think of limiting profit orders where you limit to say 5 points but raise the stake a little ? (in my case I will not try this until I have got the systems yielding a positive return).

Also the IG platform - I have convinced myself perhaps that I am saving money by using the live feeds (which only emulate the real markets) and using what i consider to be the very fine Advanced Charting tools provided by IG - which are of course fed by IGs @emulated@ data.
With my track record to date I simply cannot afford a live feed anyway !

Cheers
P

pleaper said:

With my track record to date I simply cannot afford a live feed anyway !

Click to expand...

I have nothing to say which hasn't been said in the posts behind me. Take those indicators off your charts though, and go "naked" (has that been said too?!). Just wanted to point out that all Ig Index charts are live, including the "free" ones...

If you take any advice off this forum then its another thing you are doing wrong. Please do your own research and regard this forum as just a bit of entertainment.

poborsky said:

If you take any advice off this forum then its another thing you are doing wrong. Please do your own research and regard this forum as just a bit of entertainment.

Click to expand...

Wow....that's the most useless post i've ever read. A lot of advice is fairly bad on this site but I don't think many will disagree with what has been said.

Masquerade said:

Wow....that's the most useless post i've ever read. A lot of advice is fairly bad on this site but I don't think many will disagree with what has been said.

Click to expand...

Thats a little unfair. Whilst it does no harm to seek advice, or to read what others have to say, ultimately your pretty much on your own, and the earlier you realise that, then the sooner you can start to make progress.

zupcon said:

Thats a little unfair. Whilst it does no harm to seek advice, or to read what others have to say, ultimately your pretty much on your own, and the earlier you realise that, then the sooner you can start to make progress.

Click to expand...

tbh, I think it's unfair what he did as I personally spent the time making a reply and trying to contribute something to this place after all that's been going on, when I could have been doing anything else and he comes along without knowing anything about me/my trading and makes a statement belittling everything that has been said. (As far as my interpretation goes.)

All these prop guys who started in trading did not start on their own. Other people have benefited from the use of the knowledge of other traders at some point in time so I don't buy into that "you're all alone" stuff. If you approach trading knowing nothing, and trading live you won't be around for long. I'm sure the OP will be able to tell you which post is more helpful and I don't think that reply had a place. He's very welcome to start a thread but when someone new asks for help - either give some advice or say nothing. I'm not detracting any more, i'm done on that respect.

Masquerade said:

Wow....that's the most useless post i've ever read.

Click to expand...

Really, how about this:

"I'd been trading my own accounts for a few years and losing money on a consistent basis. I felt the chips were down and it was time to quit. But on February 21st, by some twist of fate I stumbled upon this thread. 115% Profitable System!!! I was sceptical at first and it seemed really complex. Nevertheless, I felt this was my last shot and I contacted Shadowninja. He talked me through the method and how to grip the forex sword in one hand forex nunchaku in the other and use them to gain market intuition and place my trades.

It's a year later and it's been going amazing. I only work 4 minutes a day and make $5001/day. I'd just like to thank him from the bottom of my heart as I don't know where i'd be without him. Tomorrow I am visiting Rosso Corsa in North London to test drive my very first Ferrari!! I can't decide between Red or Black - but I might just buy both."

poborsky said:

Really, how about this:

"I'd been trading my own accounts for a few years and losing money on a consistent basis. I felt the chips were down and it was time to quit. But on February 21st, by some twist of fate I stumbled upon this thread. 115% Profitable System!!! I was sceptical at first and it seemed really complex. Nevertheless, I felt this was my last shot and I contacted Shadowninja. He talked me through the method and how to grip the forex sword in one hand forex nunchaku in the other and use them to gain market intuition and place my trades.

It's a year later and it's been going amazing. I only work 4 minutes a day and make $5001/day. I'd just like to thank him from the bottom of my heart as I don't know where i'd be without him. Tomorrow I am visiting Rosso Corsa in North London to test drive my very first Ferrari!! I can't decide between Red or Black - but I might just buy both."

Click to expand...

I fail to see your point. Either you're being very stupid or not making yourself clear.

What's wrong with that? *goes to contact his solicitors*

Masquerade said:

I fail to see your point.

Click to expand...

and you call me stupid

shadowninja said:

What's wrong with that? *goes to contact his solicitors*

Click to expand...

Choose Carter Ruck...less 'celeb' than Schillings, but still loads of bite left in the old dog...

pleaper said:

Hi
Been trading for a while (few months) primarily with IG index.
Read various good books such as @Come into my Trading Room@ Dr Elder, Toni Turners Day trading books, know a little about charting, MACD MAs, Stochastics but am still generally losing - not as badly as when I started but barely breaking even.

My latest strategy (after having a mixed return from trading stocks (FTSE & DOW)
is trading FX - basically use the following technique:

Look for MA 22/11 crossovers on a 30 minute chart (IG advanced charting allows notifications of these) check the crossing point out... if MACD looks good (+2 for buys -2 for sells), Stochastics look ok (high for buys, low for sells) and Dr Elder's Elder Ray has appropriate sell or buy values I may trade. I wait and watch ... but still inevitably lose!

I feel I am @nearly there@ but am clearly missing something.
With the stocks I was making a list of target stocks, identify if the trends from a Weekly/Daily/Hourly perspective and buy or sell in the opposite direction of the major daily/hourly trend. Had some luck with this @system@ but the losses although smaller in numvber than the wins, are inevitably wiping out the winning profits.

Funds and pride running low now so any advice pls ?

Hopfully other newbies may appreciate this as I am sure I am not the only one on this lonely road !

Cheers
P

Click to expand...

Just in case you missed it check out The Bramble's thread which has just been bumped on this first steps section. IMHO, at the point you're at, the start you've made is OK, don't beat yourself up too much...This trading lark's a lot harder than you thought though eh?

Just keep on doin if you have the time, energy, enthusiasm, mental capacity and the sheer bloody mindiness to come through...

Trade small, very small, make your first bit of cash go as far as you can whilst you spend hours upon hours reading up, scouring this forum and others and watching how price acts on the charts (for hours) - however you set them up/and with what...

Oh by the way, you will lose money at first, after you've had the usual initial slight rush of euphoria/profits when you think it's easy. Now you can treat it (your losses) as fees to be written off for the 'educashun', or get bitter. Again IMHO if you can keep your losses to perhaps 500-1,000 quid during your first six months of self education and then build from there to become consistently profitable inside 12 months you'll have cracked it...then the next battle starts...

Maybe you're overtrading. Sit back and wait for the market to setup properly and then pounce.

Also, here's some advice to think about.

Get those TA books you've got and re-read them upside down. So when the MACD gives a classic buy signal you sell!

No I'm not being stupid as there's a fortune to be made from trading TA reversals, ie wait for a classic buy or sell pattern (as given by the MACD, MAs, RSI etc) and then if it doesn't work go the opposite way. So if it gives a buy signal that attracts a lot of buying but if the market doesn't go up and starts to drift people will sell and stops will get triggered and that's what you want to be looking for.

Now the hard part. Pick 1 ir 2 indicators MAX and watch them for the next 6 months. Start to get inside them, feel them etc. And you can only do that by observing. Do that and you'll be ahead of the curve knwoing their weakness and strengths. Then start to trade in small size and increase as the profits roll in.

Patience is a virtue in this game, most don't have it which is why most.......