Just starting out - HELP!

Hello everyone. I have just read and studied and reviewed and rereviewed Shiraz's cta champion trader and yesterday did my first trading (on my own scratch paper) and did very well. I signed up for etrade account - and am fumbling through how to use it - and would like to do some computer paper trading first before I hit the "real show". But I cannot find any free paper trading web sites. Would love some help on this. I am so excited about beginning my trading business - scared - but excited and would love any advice you may give to help me get started. I am comfortable with the cta formula - but trading on line and all that - is confusing to me.

Roxanna - try interactive brokers. They have a demo version which alows you to trade a notional $50,000 online using 15 min delayed prices.

http://www.interactivebrokers.co.uk/

The account info is only accurate for the session during which you log on, so don't try to reconcile what you did today with yesterday because each time you log on you just pick up the one of the accounts that someone else has already been trading. but as it is 15 mins delayed, you can monitor progress against r/t charts so that you can check out how stops, limits, stop/limits etc work in practice.

Good luck.

CBOT has a free trading simulator:

http://www.cbot.com/cbot/dow/cont_de...3+8880,00.html


Have fun.


Toby

Thank you both for your help. I'll check them out!

Roxanna

Hi
Like you I am testing CT system. Have been doing it for 6 weeks now on paper, with 4 real trades. I am fairly new to this spread betting lark, but find it facinating. I am not sure that testing on a trading system is such a good idea - it could be very confusing. What I do is look at the charts, if a signal is there, print out and mark sell/buy and abort. Each night I check the charts, if a signal is hit I have a form which I complete and keep up to date each night, not forgetting to place an imaginary 'stop' and also noting what the trend is. Each week I update my summaries noting the reason for exiting a trade and with a total of gains/losses. When I have a decent database I will look to see why the gains 'gain' and the losers 'lose'. Hopefully I will gain some kind of perpective from this. My real trades are actually in profit at the moment, the first time since I began spread betting - a lovely feeling. If you would like some idea of my forms etc. please E-mail me at s.freer@btopenworld.com, I will do my best to help you. (the blind leading the blind!!!).
regards

I've been advised that margin trading is
soooooooooo risky - but that's what Shiraz does. Should I be afraid of this? I
want only to do the Index trading like Shiraz - but gees am I going to need
$100,000 to start? I'm a bit nervous to margin trade..... what are you doing? And
what is your opinion on the margin trading?

Hi Roxanna,

I'd take it very slowly and very cautiously. I don't know the system you are talking about but it sounds like something for a very experienced trader. Would it be possible to trade the system using just one futures contract? I have £5K and I trade one Eurostoxx50 contract only. That is MORE than enough to learn the ropes on. I'm not trying to be negative. I LOVE trading, it's a passion for me but you can lose money FAST. I don't want to quench your enthusiasm but please look after yourself. One of the best pieces of advice I have been given is "Earn the right to trade bigger". Prove you can make money, double it at least before you think about trading more than one furures contract. If you want to see how hard it is to make money read my journal

All the best

Hi Roxanna.

"I've been advised that margin trading is
soooooooooo risky - but that's what Shiraz does. Should I be
afraid of this?"

Be afraid... Be very afraid...

Look back to the crash of '29. A lot of traders were using margin, and when the market dipped they couldn't meet the calls. Instead of being $10 they were $100 down, or $5000 down instead of $500. The bigger the player the larger the loss. When they couldn't meet the calls against them the market started to nose dive while the losses racked up all around. Fortunes were lost and people took to diving out of windows.
I can't imagine what that must have felt like, but people lost everything and for some they only saw one way out.

That last paragraph will no doubt open a debate as to what exactly caused the crash; and although not one single factor was to blame (unless you count greed) I am only concerned with the question of margin trading at the moment.

Why do you want to trade on margin?
Answer: Because you can make more money for your dollar over the same timescale. (Greed).

Nothing wrong with the answer, after all, that is why a lot of people come to trading.

And that same greed is the reason why a lot of people forcibly leave trading, because they didn't take the time to understand and control the greed/fear relationship.

Look at it this way. It's said that when you trade it is a zero sum game. It's not.

It's a negative sum game.

As soon as you enter a trade you are losing. You are losing because you have the spread and the commission to make up before it becomes a zero sum game and hopefully then becomes a winning sum game by being one point in front.

Now you, as a novice are going up against seasoned pro's and institutions. What do you think your odds are of winning your first trade?

It might be that you make 10 points.
Well done.

It may be that you lose 10 points or more before you pull out. + commission. Now add the margin to that.

How do you react under trading a real market with your own money? What do you do if it suddenly spikes against you and you are in deep. You gonna wait and ride, or cut the loss?

There is nothing inherently wrong with margin trading while you win; a couple of losses and it's a different view. But it would be a very good idea to learn the game first. No. It's imperative that you learn the game first and start off by small trading. Use tiny amounts to get the trading feel and build on that. It may be that you are not suited to trading. No one ever thinks about that before diving in feet first. Everyone thinks that they can trade and that it's easy money.

Don't look at what you can win. Look to what you can lose.
I bet the guy you mention didn't start off trading on margin.

One book will not make you a trader. learn some more first. it's good that you are going to try a dummy trading account. Trade that as if it is for real and do not cheat with the trading. Then after you do start on the real markets you will really begin to learn.

Good luck.

Options.