Soon to be new to the trading world

Ah yes another bit of fresh meat for the trading world and I of course come with questions.

First off I have done quite a bit of research and am just looking for a little validation on my thoughts.....or feel free to criticize my thoughts.

Currenty I am a sales manager for a Import auto dealership and before that I was a finance manager for quite some time. So with that said numbers are my life. Which is why trading has caught my attention.

In my rookie opinion with a start up of 20k it seems very plausible to make 500 a day with several well placed trades(scalping) each day after commission fees. Now this is all with my gorilla math so I was hoping with this post the veterans in the trading world will ground me a little bit so I can base this more on reality........So let me have it and tell me where to research because I abosorb information like a sponge!!!!

Welcome.

Yes, it is indeed plausible to make 500 a day on 20k.

But (yes BUT), the reality is that the battle you'll face is with your own psychology and emotions interfering with what may be a profitable method. We all spend years looking for or trying to perfect a trading method or system when lack of profit comes mostly from our inability to follow the rules when our own real money is at stake.

Overcoming this is what puts you into the 5% of winners, not finding a good system (although you must have a passable one).

The odd and inevitable loss always seriously reduces your profits so 500 a day is very optimistic for a beginner...

theonlykee said:

Ah yes another bit of fresh meat for the trading world and I of course come with questions.

First off I have done quite a bit of research and am just looking for a little validation on my thoughts.....or feel free to criticize my thoughts.

Currenty I am a sales manager for a Import auto dealership and before that I was a finance manager for quite some time. So with that said numbers are my life. Which is why trading has caught my attention.

:!:In my rookie opinion with a start up of 20k it seems very plausible to make 500 a day with several well placed trades(scalping) each day after commission fees. :!:Now this is all with my gorilla math so I was hoping with this post the veterans in the trading world will ground me a little bit so I can base this more on reality........So let me have it and tell me where to research because I abosorb information like a sponge!!!!

Click to expand...

:!: I'll show you the figures you wish for, you tell yourself whether you really believe it is achievable. Compare against traders to get a feeling for your research. (Traders, not newbs that have been in the game 6 months and no sh1tty systems that give away free pens)

You have 20k

You want 500 per day

All these figures are NOT compounded, if they were, the figures would be off the scale.

This means 2.5% per day on account

2,500 per week = 12.5% per week on capital invested

10,000 per month = 50% gains of account.

This means 120,000 per year = 600%.

What do you reckon???

I'm not attempting to p1ss on your fire, I'm attempting to bring realism to the world of trading.

theonlykee said:

In my rookie opinion with a start up of 20k it seems very plausible to make 500 a day with several well placed trades...

Click to expand...

I'm also new to all this, and have been reading & learning stuff for a bit over a month. I'm not risking any real money yet. I'd say:

In theory - yes, $500 per day is perfectly feasible. Review the charts and you'll probably find that yesterday there was a movement that would have made $500 in a single trade.

In practice - no chance.

Do some reading, and then set up a demo account. Practice. Read. Practice. Read. If you can make $500 every day for two months then think about going live. I can't stress how important it is to run a demo account. This is waaaaaaay harder than it looks !

Steve.

seen as we trade on margin if you have the set up and the skill to make the trades then how much you make is all down to risk per trade, if your risking 2% of capital per trade then you would expect to make 2.5% most days if not more. However you could just as easily blow your 20k in that month so the best thing is to demo trade, make the starting amount 20k and turn it in to 60k when you have done that without resetting the account or blowing it you are ready to put your real $ to work.

If you are a superstar from the get go this exercise will not take you more then 6 months, if you are not then at least you will learn what you are capable of doing. The markets will still be there in 6 months time dont rush in. If you were training to be a fighter pilot you would clock in loads more hours on the simulator before they let you near the real thing, think of trading in the same way.

Sundayjumper said:

I can't stress how important it is to run a demo account. This is waaaaaaay harder than it looks !

Steve.

Click to expand...

Making money on a demo account is waaaaaaaay easier than with real money...

£10kLoser said:

Making money on a demo account is waaaaaaaay easier than with real money...

Click to expand...

Purely psychological ? Or is a live account functionally different ? Serious question here, I'm demo trading atm and if things go well I'm planning to go live at the end of the year.

Steve.

I have to agree that for most people trying to stick to a plan with paper money is almost impossible. When you are risking nothing you tend to make bad choices or risk more because deep in your brain you know its not real. I guess trading is like gambling....you can alwasy go on tilt and blow your wad. The thing is trading, it seems, is no where near the risk of gambling. It is more calculated than the roll of a dice or the turn or a card. I know its hard to compare the two, but when you think about most peopl; they get flustered very easy and make choices on emotion and not logic....

Yes, purely psychological. When it's your own real money, you WILL behave differently. You'll start second guessing whether to enter the trade, you'll close out too early both when in profit and with a loss and you'll enter too early/too late!

After a loss, you'll be reluctant to trade on the next signal. Your rules will go to pot and your intellect will be overpowered by your subconscious.

Best policy is to graduate to trading very tiny trades with real money in order to see how to behave. The system is secondary to the ability of the trader to stick to the rules.

Sounds easy, but it isn't.

???

theonlykee said:

I have to agree that for most people trying to stick to a plan with paper money is almost impossible. When you are risking nothing you tend to make bad choices or risk more because deep in your brain you know its not real. I guess trading is like gambling....you can alwasy go on tilt and blow your wad. The thing is trading, it seems, is no where near the risk of gambling. It is more calculated than the roll of a dice or the turn or a card. I know its hard to compare the two, but when you think about most peopl; they get flustered very easy and make choices on emotion and not logic....

Click to expand...

Whoa! You've got this the wrong way round. Sticking to a plan is much easier with paper money.

agreed if you cant stick to a plan paper trading you dont stand a chance live

theonlykee said:

Ah yes another bit of fresh meat for the trading world and I of course come with questions.

First off I have done quite a bit of research and am just looking for a little validation on my thoughts.....or feel free to criticize my thoughts.

Currenty I am a sales manager for a Import auto dealership and before that I was a finance manager for quite some time. So with that said numbers are my life. Which is why trading has caught my attention.

In my rookie opinion with a start up of 20k it seems very plausible to make 500 a day with several well placed trades(scalping) each day after commission fees. Now this is all with my gorilla math so I was hoping with this post the veterans in the trading world will ground me a little bit so I can base this more on reality........So let me have it and tell me where to research because I abosorb information like a sponge!!!!

Click to expand...

Trading is extremely difficult at times, easy some other times, it's definitely not a normal job, you are guarranteed to lose money in the beginning!that may be al long as 5 years.... My only advice to you is don't rely on market gurus calling the market for you, or on someone just because they are older and years in this
You need a resiliant psychology, remember the pain of losing $500 exceeds the pleasure
of winning $500.... from what you are saying I get the impression you are excited
about winning and have a sense of wishful thinking, good to be optimistic but emotions and greed will equally create easy panic situations when wrong,
Finally I'm against mechanical systems, markets are emotion driven and are dynamic
and dynamically changing, what works this month will not be use next month
they do contain a random emotion element, you know like never ending irrational
numbers in maths where there's no pattern

mechanical trading systems are doomed to fail sooner or later, the stricter the rules the worse it gets,
long standing profitable floor traders use flexile rules and trade markets not money, for example
they won't have a rigid $500/100 point stop, rather they will place a stop at a days important level
and they assign different weight of importance on these levels

Warren Buffet never risks money on investments he doesn't understand,
pure mechanical trading is a boring , meaningless process, when you win you don't even know why you do
it can never catch up with intuition driven traders

http://www.cannontrading.com/
Find help here!