How Do DayTraders Make Money in the Futures Market?

This is a discussion on How Do DayTraders Make Money in the Futures Market? within the First Steps forums, part of the Reception category; Here's your free trial dudes..note the closed captioning, noting the reversal points. Yes, it's a Super 8 mm silent film, ...

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Old Feb 7, 2009, 5:32pm   #41
Joined Aug 2008
mechanicaldaytrader started this thread Here's your free trial dudes..note the closed captioning, noting the reversal points.



Yes, it's a Super 8 mm silent film, do not adjust your speakers. If you want to hear my voice, open your wallet..lol

Paid subscribers have much cooler/sharper/bigger videos which you can see via a GoToMeeting session after you complete the Fundamentals of Futures Trading seminar on the condition that you whip out the credit card if I show you clear, concise trading rules with tight stops and known profit objectives.

Proprietary terms below in ALL CAPS.

Long Trading Rules:
Buy coequal GREEN levels if RHS trading rules occur (Fundamentals of Futures Trading) & you have TWO+ DOW BEHAVIORS (One Minute Methodology Subscription required). Consider exiting first long contract at HIGH DEVIATION 'x' minutes after Long Entry. 2nd contract exited based on Dow Behaviors/Time/Price behavior or if an Uptrend is occurring (market stays >= POWERFUL PURPLE.

If Uptrend occurs 'x' minutes past DRUP re-enter Long at URUP (timed entry @ MAX OS condition

Short entry rules are COEQUAL ORANGE/MAX OB conditions (DayRaider 2.0 subscription) based on DOW BEHAVIORS and BOY SCOUT shows NEGATIVE DEVIATION.

Exiting positions is always fun in the futures market, cuz you're not sure when you first enter the market how long things will continue going in one direction; trading software should give you real time reporting if you are in a trend or not - mine does, it definitely lowers the stress. Taking a "trading range" trade typically nets 25-35 MIni Dow points and you're in the market about 4 to 12 minutes BTW

If you want the low margin rates and possibly lowest trading account minimums, look up Global Futures. Ask for George. I don't get any spiffs - George shows up every day and does what he says - which is hard to find these days.

No more whining. All those that want a free trial, I'll be sure and ask your boss if he got a free trial before he hired you...lol

Stuart
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Old Feb 7, 2009, 6:24pm   #42
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mechanicaldaytrader started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by timsk View Post


If we apply this to Stuart and his offering, the critics will say that he may well have a great product / strategy that's hugely profitable for him, but there's no way it'll be hugely profitable for you or me. Furthermore, because it is largely mechanical, even if it does work now, it's highly unlikely to work next month or next year because the markets are dynamic and forever changing. Lastly, subscribers to such services aren't 'real' traders and don't understand the markets. If they did, they wouldn't need the products / services of the vendor. When the system fails, or the vendor goes out of business, the subscribers are left floundering, unsure what to do next. Naturally, Stuart will argue that this will never happen! On this last point, prospective customers have to make up their own minds.
Not a system, a methodology...systems are rigid, inflexible and probably will have long periods of drawdowns during the best of times.

Methodology is flexible, uses SOME discretion to avoid repetitive losses or large risks..Paid subscribers can backtest the methodology as long as the data goes back on the data feed (a long time)...if they're dissatisified with it, I'll immediately credit them all they paid less $100 no questions asked once I receive a written request stating why within 2 days of their subscription start date. PayPal has a procedure for refunding customers, I will use that (I have never used it, but I am sure it is pretty fast). No risk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timsk View Post
Indeed there are. The problem you face is that actually there's loads and loads of them out there and, until you have some idea as to what to look for and what to avoid (that's well over 90% of them) you're going to be pisssing in the wind. You'll probably try one or two - they won't work - and then you'll conclude that trading isn't for you. I did this, only I wasn't smart enough to go for the free trial; I got out my credit card on the first day. I soon abandoned the system that I'd payed for, but stuck with learning to trade because I wanted to recoup the money I'd foolishly paid out.
There is tons of due diligence displayed on my site, especially after a person finishes the Fundamentals course; they know the technical causes of all reversals in the market I trade. If you consider any vendor, ask for due diligence (videos of past charts is a huge help).

Quote:
Originally Posted by timsk View Post
Most vendors offer some kind of a free trial or a guarantee. In Stuart's case, it's clear that some training is required in the use of his software as well as instruction about the strategy as a whole. He can't offer a free trial as he would waste countless hours with people who wouldn't then become subscribers. It simply wouldn't work as a business model; hence his guarantee.
Follow the trading rules and training regimen and you will succeed. Go your own way, you will spin your wheels. I am a stickler on homework. You must replicate the methodology that I clearly, succinctly present in PDF form. None of this is difficult for a 6th grade general math student (basic algebraic equations, IF/THEN conditions, daytraders always solve for the "missing factor" before taking a trade). You are trading against computerized programs owned by the Institutions...you must have a computerized method to compete and piggyback their trades, otherwise you are playing with fire.

Stuart

Last edited by mechanicaldaytrader; Feb 7, 2009 at 6:39pm.
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Old Feb 23, 2009, 1:34am   #43
Joined Aug 2008
Mechanically Trade ....3,765 Mini-Dow Points in 14 trading days

mechanicaldaytrader started this thread ....more due diligence for the tire kickers of T2W....

The simplest trades in the One Minute Methodology are, what i call...Kindergarten Trades.

Kindergarten Trades, or KT's are mechanical...there is no doubt the reversal will occur. All the subscriber has to do is wait for the technical signal (one indicator only) then enter the trade (using a trading rule) on the futures. DayRaider will graphically display the likely reversal level (10% discretion/90% mechanical) - you enter the limit order and most likely get filled. Experienced traders can time the fills via a market order and probably get a better fill 75% of the time (3 or 4 ticks better)...newbies probably will enter late and chase the market a little, instead of believing the limit order # on DayRaider.

3 weeks of 90% mechanical trades (so far this month of February), as reflected in the Mini-Dow are displayed on the attachment (the spreadsheet in pdf form). The 3,765 Mini Dow Points are 'Trend Dow Points' ...ie, the LAST profit objective as described in my One Minute Methodology of the Mini Dow. Traders would have taken intial profits on their first contract at 30 to 50 points, then let the 2nd contract ride most of the time.

A few trades have less than 50 point profits, these are in trading ranges - DayRaider tells you when you're in a trading range, and when you're in a trend. You exit quickly in trading ranges (trades last about ten to 20 minutes).

Check out the 3rd week, there were ONLY 4 trading days...410 mini dow points last Friday...Several 400 point days in the past 3 weeks.

All of this can be backtested on past data ad finitum...about 200 Mini Dow Points per day using KT's trading rule is the norm.

TheMechanicalDayTrader
Attached Files
File Type: pdf february 2009 one minute kindergarten trades.pdf (21.3 KB, 210 views)
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Old Mar 15, 2009, 3:50pm   #44
 
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raising my hand
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Old Mar 16, 2009, 3:53am   #45
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re: customer feedback

Stuart,

Than you for the extensive info in this forum.
I have a question for you, why is there only one testimonial on your web site? How many users have been using your system so far and for how long? In general what is their feedback?

Thanks,

OB
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Old Mar 16, 2009, 4:30am   #46
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mechanicaldaytrader started this thread Thanks for the kind words OceanBeu.

How many points profit did the testimonial state OceanBleu? How many minutes was the trader in the market OceanBleu? Not bad for a newbie, huh?

Most subscribers just learn what they feel comfortable with and keep their profits (and their news) to themselves. About a 1/3 or more of the clients are busy guys and plan on sitting on the sidelines for 3 to 6 months then start seriously trading...and then there is the 1/4 that just won't follow trading rules, their big egos say "I gotta do it my way".

The greatest testimonial is getting referrals from current clients. Half or more of my clients are referrals. BTW, Richard M. has recently sent me a referral. Speaks volumes. Version 1.1 was pretty good, but version 2.1 and 2.2 display the end of the oversold or end of overbought conditions very simply now, so traders can nail frequent trades using the same trading setups over and over.

In 12 years, I've never looked to someone else to see what I should do, cuz I have not met anyone that has my work habits and discipline. Folks that look for others to blaze a trail for them should not even consider trading, imo. Find out for yourself and do your own due diligence.

BTW, it's a methodology, not a system, so it takes a month or so to get the hang of it. The near automation of DayRaider has only been on the street a couple weeks, the final version (2.2) will start running on existing clients at the end of this week.

As the website posting states, version 2.2 will have a ironclad guarantee...it works every week or you get your one year subscription back.

People have a short window to sign up before the price goes up to $10,000 -- I don't want anyone to sign up unless they're serious about making 6 figures a year. Period. It may sound harsh, but I've met sooo many people that just aren't willing to learn basic things and put them into practice - and be held accountable for what they are taught.

There's 3 kinds of clients that are not successful;

1] those that are not willing to follow the simple rules and do the basics

2] those that insist on making things more complex than they are and are constantly nitpicking instead of seeing the 150 to 300 points per day 4 out of 5 days

3] or they would rather whine and complain about why things didn't go their way, when in truth - if they just followed a couple simple rules they would have gotten 30 or 40 points at least....and they still had 5 hours of trading left. Instead, they want the monster point trades every time (they're there every day) and many are not willing to be patient and let the market come to them. Even John Elway had to wait for 3rd and long in the 4th quarter quite a few times, but he ended up getting the defense right where he wanted them and Elway consistently won football games late in the 4th quarter.

Sit back, let the market come to you, and take one of maybe 2 or 3 trade setups..they're there every day. After a couple months of making serious dinero, you can catch the other 9 trades per day you missed.

Cheers!

SK
The Mechanical Day Trader
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Old Mar 21, 2009, 9:50pm   #47
 
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Mechanical Trading is possible!

After reading the comments of this thread, I thought I should throw in my 2 cents worth.

I believe mechanical day trading is possible.... thanks to the great methodology and patient teaching of Stuart at MechanicalDayTrader. Before I found Stuart, I was caught up in the daytrading systems trap. Basically, I was trying to find the grail of trading. It was frustratring because I couldn't see beyond the system and know how the market moves and why. I didn't have a framework to review my trades against to understand why they worked or didn't. It was all just numbers and statistics. I wanted and needed more.

It is now refreshing to be able to turn my charts on at any time of the day and know where the market is in its cycle for the day and week. I can finally see the big picture and identify the low risk entry positions. In the past, this was just a mystery to me.

I admit that I am a slow learner and tend to complicate things. Stuart has been very patient and incredibly generous with his time to share his knowledge and information with me. Stuart says that this is very simple... it is. But it wasn't easy for me. It has taken me a lot of time and review and homework and perseverence to finally begin to see how it all fits together.

I am just starting the process of trading his method and rules. My success going forward will not be based on whether or not Stuart's methodology works.... it is rock solid and not likely to change. No, the key to my success now is up to me....discipline, money management and good execution!

Thanks for doing your part Stuart! You have under promised and over delivered (and continue to do so). That is a rarety today.

I hope I can become a successful and wealthy testimonial for you one day in the not too distant future!
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Old Mar 21, 2009, 11:53pm   #48
 
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I hate to spoil the party but I sit with consitently profitable daytraders in the futures market and they don't make money looking at a handful of indicators and moving averages.

They make money by examining the order flow, identifying what the algos and other locals are doing by reading the ladder and picking off the other, unsuccessful traders that don't know what they are doing.

I am not saying your method doesn't work - but lets not make the mistake of thinking that day traders at banks and prop firms are following anything like you show...because for the most part they are not.

I've seen many traders come in with "systems" - even ones that allow for the element of discretion. And none of them have made any money consistently.

As for the refund if its not profitable...well, will people ever admit they weren't profitable and claim for the refund? Probably not. Also, there are usually 100 get out clauses. You weren't following the rules. You weren't at your computer when the signals were given. etc etc

I saw in a post above you said something about making 150 pips on 4/5 days. I presume this is measured in pips per contract. As in: If you do do 50 pips on a 3 lot thats 150 pips. Because taking 150 pips PER CONTRACT on 4/5 days is not easy and I really am a doubter that any mechanical system can do it.

Just my 2 cents. Not trying to bring it down. Just my thoughts and something to think about for the newbs.
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Old Mar 22, 2009, 12:09am   #49
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mechanicaldaytrader started this thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by trader_dante View Post
I hate to spoil the party but I sit with consitently profitable daytraders in the futures market and they don't make money looking at a handful of indicators and moving averages.

They make money by examining the order flow, identifying what the algos and other locals are doing by reading the ladder and picking off the other, unsuccessful traders that don't know what they are doing.

I am not saying your method doesn't work - but lets not make the mistake of thinking that day traders at banks and prop firms are following anything like you show...because for the most part they are not.

I've seen many traders come in with "systems" - even ones that allow for the element of discretion. And none of them have made any money consistently.

As for the refund if its not profitable...well, will people ever admit they weren't profitable and claim for the refund? Probably not. Also, there are usually 100 get out clauses. You weren't following the rules. You weren't at your computer when the signals were given. etc etc

I saw in a post above you said something about making 150 pips on 4/5 days. I presume this is measured in pips per contract. As in: If you do do 50 pips on a 3 lot thats 150 pips. Because taking 150 pips PER CONTRACT on 4/5 days is not easy and I really am a doubter that any mechanical system can do it.

Just my 2 cents. Not trying to bring it down. Just my thoughts and something to think about for the newbs.
Ya know Trade_Dante ya better stop deliberately distorting what is written, it will come back to BITE you. I challenge anyone to find that what I offer is a "system" in any post anywhere in my website or in any Forum that DayRaider is discussed by me. 90% mechanical, yeah, system no. Got it?



Anyone can send me an email and set up a online conference - I'll disprove every one of Trader_Dante's allegations/insuations in 5 minutes just by navigating thru my website. Every one of your posits or allegations can be easily disproven...the MOST GLARING being "pips"....My God!

Institutional Stops are mathematically projected, recognized, traded (many mechanically via Kindergarten Trading Rules) and cause ALL key reversals in the Mini Dow (ain't no "pips" in the Dow, Dante!)

The Mechanical Day Trader

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Old Mar 22, 2009, 12:13am   #50
 
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Trader= Dante's information on profitable trading is FREE - no indicators required.
You newbies read his posts - it takes time -then practice. All it costs you is time and determination.
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....Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.

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