How Do DayTraders Make Money in the Futures Market?

This is a discussion on How Do DayTraders Make Money in the Futures Market? within the First Steps forums, part of the Reception category; Stuart's act is so annoying to me. What I love is that threads like this and the one on elitetrader ...

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Old Jul 2, 2009, 10:06pm   #99
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Stuart's act is so annoying to me. What I love is that threads like this and the one on elitetrader will exist to dissuade newbies from getting mixed up with this guy. I was with him in 2006, so the law of averages say that if his methodology was viable that he would have some successful students that would verify the success he claims is possible. Quick story. he mentioned back in 2006 that he had some prop shop in Chicago I believe that was interested in his methodology. Of course that fell completely flat because - HIS CRAP DOESN'T WORK. Part of me kind of admires the hustler work ethic he displays. I mean he doesn't work a 9 to 5 job and derives enough income to take trips and live fairly comfortably. The truth though is he is just one rung above a drug dealer. If someone insists on giving him money at this point what can be done.
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Old Jul 5, 2009, 5:15am   #100
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I just realized something reading this thread. I am pretty sure Stuart did his impersonation act here by posting as aussiepearson. Notice how someone asks about recommendations and then magically aussiepearson makes his one and only post on this board. He is from Florida and has Stuart's tell tale ... style of writing just like floridadaytrade from the elitetrader thread. Seriously, this is my last last followup on this scammer. You have all been warned at this point, so just stay away from this guy.
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Old Jul 5, 2009, 12:34pm   #101
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Hi Claudia,
I'm surprised to see you jumping on the 'bash a vendor' bandwagon. I expect your post is well intentioned, but in my view the anti vendor lobby don't apply sound logic or reasoned thinking to their argument.

There are loads of very dodgy people and companies out there selling rubbish and charging a lot for it. There's little doubt about that. However, it is quite wrong to tarnish all vendors as rubbish. There are lots of good ones who offer a good product / service and who have lots of happy customers. E.g. Mr. Charts. He is a very well respected member here on T2W and a well known vendor and I am one of his happy customers. And there are many good reasons why they sell their services and products besides just trading in obscurity. Additionally, I think it's fine for mechanicaldaytrader (ex) students to dismiss his methodolgy as "rubbish" if that's their view based on their experience of his materials. If you are a (ex) student of Stuart's, then I accept your view, otherwise your obsevation is both unfair and unfounded.


So long as the trader is able to distinguish between a trending market and a rangebound market, there's nothing much wrong with a simple MA crossover system. Although I suspect your comment wasn't aimed at the mechanicaldaytrader specifically, Stuart's methodology is a far cry from a simple MA crossover system. Just looking at his website and his posts to this thread will reveal that there's rather more to it than that.


Of course you're right that those who make money do so at the expense of the losers. I suspect that many of the losing traders have never paid for any tuition and think they can enter the market and make money from their hope and pray trades. If more people paid out good money for good tuition, they might lose less in the markets. There is a place for good tuition in trading, just as there's a place for good tuition in any other sphere of human endeavor. Have you - or anyone you know - ever been to an evening class and really benefited from it? Well there you go - why's trading any different? The really important point in all of this is to distinguish the good vendors with a good product or service to sell at a fair price from the numerous scam merchants. That is a more complex issue. But, the notion that all trading vendors are evil crooks who only pedal their trashy wares because they can't trade themselves is totally ludicrous.
Tim.
Very good points made there Tim, but here's a thing that puzzles me; other than those taught by the pros in a corporate environment how many traders (who are not self taught) that buy systems/buy tuition and fill their boots have had success? I'd hazard a guess it's close to zero.
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Old Jul 5, 2009, 1:26pm   #102
 
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Very good points made there Tim, but here's a thing that puzzles me; other than those taught by the pros in a corporate environment how many traders (who are not self taught) that buy systems/buy tuition and fill their boots have had success? I'd hazard a guess it's close to zero.
Which really was my point to start with. Tim made a very good post but i still say these systems are worthless. Mr Charts teaches people to trade on a 'one to one' basis as I understand it - and that is different.

To pay thousands of pounds/euros whatever to be given a system that is based on ma's and the such is crazy. And no 'system' will hold up long term due to changes in market conditions.

Being taught to trade by a pro is fine - relying on other peoples 'systems' and/or signals is asking for trouble. To me you are not then in charge of what you are doing.

I think close to zero is a very good call. If anyone can tell different let's hear from them.
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Old Jul 5, 2009, 1:29pm   #103
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Originally Posted by Black Swan View Post
Very good points made there Tim, but here's a thing that puzzles me; other than those taught by the pros in a corporate environment how many traders (who are not self taught) that buy systems/buy tuition and fill their boots have had success? I'd hazard a guess it's close to zero.
Interesting Black Swan!
Your post implies that the only successful home based retail traders are those who are self taught. Am I correct is deducing this and, if so, why?
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Old Jul 6, 2009, 11:33am   #104
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Interesting Black Swan!
Your post implies that the only successful home based retail traders are those who are self taught. Am I correct is deducing this and, if so, why?
hey timsk,
My opinion would be that people who go for the easy way ie. "buy this system, do no work ,and get rich" are people physiologically unsuitable to trade. they want others to tell them they can do it when the only person who can do that is themselves.
Same for the people giving the argument "prove that you make money then ill let you teach me" now don't get me wrong you need to ask, is this a con or not? but just because somone makes a ton of money means diddly squat for you, as once again its up to YOU to make yourself successfull.
Alot of people seem to miss this, and this will make success hard/impossible for them,sad but true.
(this happens in all walks of life not just trading btw)
cheers Bry.
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Old Jul 6, 2009, 3:59pm   #105
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Originally Posted by vrtrop22b View Post
I just realized something reading this thread. I am pretty sure Stuart did his impersonation act here by posting as aussiepearson. Notice how someone asks about recommendations and then magically aussiepearson makes his one and only post on this board. He is from Florida and has Stuart's tell tale ... style of writing just like floridadaytrade from the elitetrader thread. Seriously, this is my last last followup on this scammer. You have all been warned at this point, so just stay away from this guy.
glad to hear it's your last last post....nice of you to throw mud and not take any responsibility to find out if it's true or not.

AussiePerson is a client I actually shook hands with; he lives about an hour from where I hang out when I am in SE Florida. We met last December when I was in the USA. He is extremely analytical and has done yeoman's work - there is a spreadsheet or two of analysis that he has done of my methodology on the subscriber FTP server that is outstanding analysis. He's recently upgraded to the Tradestation software and was in a training meeting last Thursday.

#1 people ask for my customer's feedback, so when some customer makes a post, folks can send an email to the MODS and have them check out the IP or cookie.

#2 send an email to aussieperson asking who he is; assuming his profile accepts an email or private message he'll respond.

#3 send an email to me and I will forward it to aussieperson; assuming he follows up with you - you can ask any questions you might have of him.

Of course, this guy makes posts, makes allegations, then when confronted admits he doesn't know the methodology, and won't accept backtested provable results that are 100% objective...so he runs away scott-free, anonymously throwing mud without taking any responsibility for alleging the "snake oil" I profess doesn't work...when it is provable and is used successfully and there are posts on this Forum stating that.

I totally sympathize with anyone that considers any vendor to be peddling snake oil, that's why I would insist that it be provable and have a moneyback guarantee.

....meanwhile, back to training a newbie...he's got some Module II homework ready for me....

sk
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