Van K Tharp

Hi guys,

I'm new here. Been an equities investor for years but am attempting the move over to Forex trading with a view to making it a perm strategy change.

First step for me is to change my physcology from fundamentals analysis investing to TA.

Bought Van K Tharps "Trade your way to Financial Freedom" and wondered if anyone on here had read it?

It had some useful things. I find the psychology and money management sections particularly useful.

Thanks a lot. Sounds useful

Stuart14 said:

Hi guys,

I'm new here. Been an equities investor for years but am attempting the move over to Forex trading with a view to making it a perm strategy change.

First step for me is to change my physcology from fundamentals analysis investing to TA.

Bought Van K Tharps "Trade your way to Financial Freedom" and wondered if anyone on here had read it?

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I just started to read it and luckily for me, I bought the second edition. There seems to be some differences between the first and the second on the subject of money management.. he clarifies it by calling in "position sizing". Well, I'm nearly halfway through and like it so far. Hopefully it will turn me into a rich SoB, hahahaha!

shadowninja said:

I find the psychology particularly useful.

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so you went out and started destroying villages of innocent peasants ?


(private joke)

Stuart14 said:

Hi guys,

I'm new here. Been an equities investor for years but am attempting the move over to Forex trading with a view to making it a perm strategy change.

First step for me is to change my physcology from fundamentals analysis investing to TA.

Bought Van K Tharps "Trade your way to Financial Freedom" and wondered if anyone on here had read it?

Click to expand...

I read it years ago. It is crap written by someone who talked to to successful traders. Read it and you will learn:

1- Risking 3% means you are a 'gunslinger'

2- position sizing is magic even when you don't have an edge (I am not kidding, he says this)

3- If you are fuc'ked up in the head, you will not make it in trading (which is obvious nonesense but appealing to stupid people)

Basically, some precious trees were killed so that he can waste a lot of paper telling you stuff that will make no difference to your trading. He is a shyster, like everyone who makes a nice living writing books on trading.

It is a pile of pants.

FXSCALPER2 said:

I read it years ago. It is crap written by someone who talked to to successful traders. Read it and you will learn:

1- Risking 3% means you are a 'gunslinger'

2- position sizing is magic even when you don't have an edge (I am not kidding, he says this)

3- If you are fuc'ked up in the head, you will not make it in trading (which is obvious nonesense but appealing to stupid people)

Basically, some precious trees were killed so that he can waste a lot of paper telling you stuff that will make no difference to your trading. He is a shyster, like everyone who makes a nice living writing books on trading.

It is a pile of pants.

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Hi bud,

Not looking for an argument here, in fact, I'm not even looking for a discussion, it just keeps coming to my attention that you never actually have any thing good to say.
Everything is crap and rubbish, no one is any good if they talk about trading or sell systems or books or give speeches ect. The first person to Rep you is Soocrates which if I understand correctly has been banned before or at the least imposing as this banned person.

Could you not have replied with something like, 'I dont like the book for these reasons but I would recommend the following', after all, this is all that new traders want. Theres a significant difference between good critism and bad.

For clarification

FXSCALPER,

Just to clarify, I wont edit or delete the last post as what been said has been said.
I dont agree on the particular approach on your specific post but would like to add to the record that there are many things you say I do agree with (past posts included).

FXSCALPER2 said:

I read it years ago. It is crap written by someone who talked to to successful traders. Read it and you will learn:

1- Risking 3% means you are a 'gunslinger'

2- position sizing is magic even when you don't have an edge (I am not kidding, he says this)

3- If you are fuc'ked up in the head, you will not make it in trading (which is obvious nonesense but appealing to stupid people)

Basically, some precious trees were killed so that he can waste a lot of paper telling you stuff that will make no difference to your trading. He is a shyster, like everyone who makes a nice living writing books on trading.

It is a pile of pants.

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I thought this book was actually quite good. It talked more about the essentials of trading over the usual Tech Analysis gubbins we've all read over and over before.

A few notes to add to FXSCALPER's post:

1) You are a gunslinger risking 3% of your equity per trade if you are a long term trend follower where only 20 - 30% of your trades make money. If you are a scalper, then you are being a bit too conservative with 3% and, consequently, should risk more. It really comes down to the trading methodology that you use.

2) Position sizing is very useful if you don't have an edge. Tom Basso tested the random entry theory and made money because of his savvy exits and position sizing (this is in the book).

3) If you are fuc'ked up in the head, you have a lot more to worry about than trading

If you want to be a short term scalper, it's a book that is of no use. However, for position and swing trading it is essential reading.

JD

FXSCALPER2 said:

I read it years ago. It is crap written by someone who talked to to successful traders. Read it and you will learn:

1- Risking 3% means you are a 'gunslinger'

2- position sizing is magic even when you don't have an edge (I am not kidding, he says this)

3- If you are fuc'ked up in the head, you will not make it in trading (which is obvious nonesense but appealing to stupid people)

Basically, some precious trees were killed so that he can waste a lot of paper telling you stuff that will make no difference to your trading. He is a shyster, like everyone who makes a nice living writing books on trading.

It is a pile of pants.

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Absolutely Correct.

I've always maintained that van Tharp is a fraud. I mean, why trade when you can charges hundreds of thousands telling others how to do it, but secretly know you can't do it yourself?

Sorry Lee, but FXSCALPER2 is just telling the blunt truth that a lot of people just don't want to hear - probably by those who already bought the book and/or have read it.

van Tharp talks psychological mumbo jumbo, but when push comes to shove he can't trade.

Jaydee said:

2) Position sizing is very useful if you don't have an edge. Tom Basso tested the random entry theory and made money because of his savvy exits and position sizing (this is in the book).

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Believe me, if Tom Basso could claim consistency with this "method" others would adopt it and also make money - this has not happened. And there is nothing to stop you from following it if you are so sure of the claims.:whistling.

And in case you did not get it, point 3 just draws a pointless point, but also appeals to the flawed logic of "get your psychological makeup right and you will be guaranteed success" that stupid people love to hear.

FXSCALPER2 said:

...If you are fuc'ked up in the head, you will not make it in trading (which is obvious nonesense but appealing to stupid people)

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(sigh).. always these discussions about who's a fraud and who's not... i'm starting to get f'ucked up in the head ... or just plain ol' stupid!

Anyway, I just keep an open mind to all kinds of ways to overcome the problems of becoming profitable. Maybe after sometime i'll be able to put the peaces of the puzzle together.. maybe not. I just keep on rollin' till I reach my personal objectives!

Axis of Evil said:

(sigh).. always these discussions about who's a fraud and who's not...

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No it's not.....

Anyone with any common sense will see that van Tharp is a fraud, who may or may not sometimes give good advice. But that advice is tainted by hypocrisy.

If you were making millions from the markets why would you want to write a book about it (granted there are a few exceptions, but these guys never gave anything of their methodology away at all)? Or shout it out in seminars and charge people money? It's only when you know what's behind all these motivations that you see why these people are doing what they're doing - and the truth of the matter isn't pleasant.

temptrader said:

No it's not.....

Anyone with any common sense will see that van Tharp is a fraud, who may or may not sometimes give good advice. But that advice is tainted by hypocrisy.

If you were making millions from the markets why would you want to write a book about it (granted there are a few exceptions, but these guys never gave anything of their methodology away at all)? Or shout it out in seminars and charge people money? It's only when you know what's behind all these motivations that you see why these people are doing what they're doing - and the truth of the matter isn't pleasant.

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No, it's not? ..what's not? I'm not against these discussions, it's just anywhere you turn, there's always someone saying he or she is a fraud. Which is fine by me, but it's starting to look to me like the world of trading is some sort of morbid asylum, there to make us all go nuts.. you can checkout any time you like, but you can never leave, hahaha.

Is it really necessary that we only learn if our teacher really has experienced the things he/she is trying to teach us?

Also, you kinda made me very curious what the real motivations are behind it all. Is it money? fame? ego? prank? or is it a worldwide conspiracy to f*ck up my head? I'll bet it's the last, isn't it? :cheesy:

Axis of Evil said:

No, it's not? ..what's not? I'm not against these discussions, it's just anywhere you turn, there's always someone saying he or she is a fraud. Which is fine by me, but it's starting to look to me like the world of trading is some sort of morbid asylum, there to make us all go nuts.. you can checkout any time you like, but you can never leave, hahaha.

Is it really necessary that we only learn if our teacher really has experienced the things he/she is trying to teach us?

Also, you kinda made me very curious what the real motivations are behind it all. Is it money? fame? ego? prank? or is it a worldwide conspiracy to f*ck up my head? I'll bet it's the last, isn't it? :cheesy:

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I'm trying to tell you that most trading books are total sh*t . . . and the ones that aren't are just good for looking up definitions like you would use a dictionary for, they cannot help you in your trading....

temptrader said:

I'm trying to tell you that most trading books are total sh*t . . . and the ones that aren't are just good for looking up definitions like you would use a dictionary for, they cannot help you in your trading....

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Any suggestions on those books that you found to be of any use? Because I'm really starting to get confused which way to go. Thanks..

temptrader said:

I'm trying to tell you that most trading books are total sh*t . . . and the ones that aren't are just good for looking up definitions like you would use a dictionary for, they cannot help you in your trading....

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Temptrader, I agree with your idea about pretend traders who make money only from selling books claiming they know how to trade. However, whether the subject author is a fraud or not, I stand by the fact that I believe that the book is worth a read. His position sizing theory is taken straight from Richard Dennis who, I'm sure we can agree, is a good trader and the rest of the book offers pointers and structure a new trader can follow. It doesn't just go over the same tech analysis balls we've all read before.

I've read a lot of trading books and, I agree, most are a waste of time and paper. But, fraud or not, I think Van K Tharp's book is worth a read.

A better book is Way of the Turtles by Curtis Faith.

Axis of Evil said:

Any suggestions on those books that you found to be of any use? Because I'm really starting to get confused which way to go. Thanks..

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Axis, there is a lot of crap out there and you'll find that out as you go on. All you need to begin with is a structure that will stop you from losing lots of money as you learn. Inevitably, it will be your experience and observations which teach you the most but, for now, if you need a book to guide you, you could do a lot worse than Van K Tharp.

Jaydee said:

Temptrader, I agree with your idea about pretend traders who make money only from selling books claiming they know how to trade. However, whether the subject author is a fraud or not, I stand by the fact that I believe that the book is worth a read. His position sizing theory is taken straight from Richard Dennis who, I'm sure we can agree, is a good trader and the rest of the book offers pointers and structure a new trader can follow. It doesn't just go over the same tech analysis balls we've all read before.

I've read a lot of trading books and, I agree, most are a waste of time and paper. But, fraud or not, I think Van K Tharp's book is worth a read.

A better book is Way of the Turtles by Curtis Faith.

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if position sizing is some form of martingale strategy to increase odds then God help you, because it's a trivial fact that you will blow up your account by doing it, maybe not immediately but eventually. I don't care for anything that van Tharp says and I can brag that I've never read any of his works - and I don't want to. The titles of his works alone will have alarm bells ringing. If he's so damn sure of being able to make everyone a success why don't we put it on the national cirriculum?:whistling

I've had a few nasty remarks returned when I said that such and such seminars by such and such individuals are nothing but cons, but people will always believe what they WANT to believe.

none of van Tharp's stuff will help, and the other book is a door stop too.

temptrader said:

I don't care for anything that van Tharp says and I can brag that I've never read any of his works - and I don't want to.

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I would have given your arguement credit if you hadn't said this. If you had read this book and honestly didn't like it, that's fair enough. But how can you slate something that you haven't read? I don't care if Van Tharp is a fraud or not. It doesn't even matter. What matters is if his book is any good and, as you haven't read it, it hardly qualifies you as a person to judge it.

I would regard myself as a pretty harsh sceptic as you will see on the boards, but my conclusion is that it's the charlatans who only talk about analysis that are the problem. Aren't you sick of reading about some miraculous indicator or some chart pattern which will provide untold riches? These are the books with the problems. At least this one doesn't babble endlessly about MACD, candles, head & shoulders, planetary alignments and everything else.

Position sizing is one of the single most important components of trading but not because it creates an edge, which it obviously doesn't; it simply allows you to endure drawdowns - that's all. You don't think that's important? Are you one of those traders/analysts on a fools errand trying to achieve a 90% hit rate?

The other book, that you almost certainly haven't read, is anything but a door stop.

Jaydee said:

I would have given your arguement credit if you hadn't said this. If you had read this book and honestly didn't like it, that's fair enough. But how can you slate something that you haven't read? I don't care if Van Tharp is a fraud or not. It doesn't even matter. What matters is if his book is any good and, as you haven't read it, it hardly qualifies you as a person to judge it.

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Well in that case why is someone who cannot trade talking to successful traders in the hope of "helping people"? Do you honestly think that would help you - and do you think it helped him in his trading? Why don't you answer that question?

What I really am getting at - and excuse me here a bit - is that van Tharp, Darren Winters, Vince Stanzione etc. . . all have this talk about them. They all give advice. Google Darren Winters, he has a blog that goes into TA and reversal patterns and the like. Now if you read it and were a newbie you'd be mistaken into thinking that he knew what he was on about, but the fact of the matter is that he does not. Nor does Stanzione, but that doesn't stop him from pontificating the incredible amounts of crap that he does, and have articles in magazine devoted to people wanting to become millionaires.

What I'm getting at is the fact that all because something is written in a book, it does not mean it's true, or of any worth. I don't have to read van Tharp's book to see where he's going with it all, I can see that quite clearly from the other "antics" that he gets up to: like charging hundreds of thousands just so you can hear him speak, advertise other "courses" and information products. These antics are not consistent with a successful trader, and because he's not successful and has never really achieved any form of success in trading you should do yourself a favour and not listen to him.