£10k wipeout

This is a discussion on £10k wipeout within the First Steps forums, part of the Reception category; Originally Posted by advfntrader I'm been thinking about the difference between gambling and trading a lot. My wife thinks I ...

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 29, 2008, 4:40pm   #41
 
zigglewigler's Avatar
Joined Sep 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by advfntrader View Post
I'm been thinking about the difference between gambling and trading a lot. My wife thinks I have gambled the money away as I didn't buy anything for it. In a way she is right, spreadBETTING kind of gives a clue, trading is actually gambling IMHO, BUT if you are disciplied and control the RISK then its different.

I had no real mechanical system, no rules and didn't control risk. hence I feel I was gambling. if I return to trading this will NEVER happen again and I will stick to a system 100%
Oh...you really are out of your depth.

Difference between gambling and trading? SpeadBETTING doesn't give you a clue. SpreadBETTING has nothing to do with trading. Spreadbets are a moronic product.

If you place a spreadbet you are being positioned against other spreadbet clients, in the same way sports betters are made part of the over-round, they are not in the game, spreadbetters are not in the market, only traders taking positions in futures, stocks or any other derivative, are in the market.

If you are not in the market, you are not trading. The clue is in the word 'trading'. Be it futures contracts, QQQ's, fish, vintage mobile phones, whatever.

'Trading is actually gambling IMHO'! You should lose any opinion you have about the markets, fast! Your opinion to date has cost you dear.

Anyone going into business, any business, without proper practice is a gambler. Why would you believe that the financial markets are less of a deadly serious business than any other?

Despite your protestations you still have a gambler's head; discipline, risk control, rules, 100% mechanical systems, blah blah, these things are just a sticking plaster for your psychology.

Spreadbet firms are going to do well out of you. Unfortunately.
__________________
Luck is not a strategy.
zigglewigler is offline  
Thanks! The following members like this post: Lee Shepherd , wasp
Old May 29, 2008, 5:03pm   #42
Joined Feb 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by zigglewigler View Post
Oh...you really are out of your depth.

Difference between gambling and trading? SpeadBETTING doesn't give you a clue. SpreadBETTING has nothing to do with trading. Spreadbets are a moronic product.

If you place a spreadbet you are being positioned against other spreadbet clients, in the same way sports betters are made part of the over-round, they are not in the game, spreadbetters are not in the market, only traders taking positions in futures, stocks or any other derivative, are in the market.

If you are not in the market, you are not trading. The clue is in the word 'trading'. Be it futures contracts, QQQ's, fish, vintage mobile phones, whatever.

'Trading is actually gambling IMHO'! You should lose any opinion you have about the markets, fast! Your opinion to date has cost you dear.

Anyone going into business, any business, without proper practice is a gambler. Why would you believe that the financial markets are less of a deadly serious business than any other?

Despite your protestations you still have a gambler's head; discipline, risk control, rules, 100% mechanical systems, blah blah, these things are just a sticking plaster for your psychology.

Spreadbet firms are going to do well out of you. Unfortunately.
I was trying to steer the thread to reach this point but you said it for me.

"discipline, risk control, rules, 100% mechanical systems" will get you wiped out in the long run.
temptrader is offline  
Old May 29, 2008, 5:28pm   #43
 
neil's Avatar
Joined Nov 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by temptrader View Post
I was trying to steer the thread to reach this point but you said it for me.

"discipline, risk control, rules, 100% mechanical systems" will get you wiped out in the long run.

Sorry to read of your loss. The above points are very important, think of them as essential componebts in a car - It's ( Control, direction,etc) all down to you since you are the only one in the driving seat (Psychology).
Apologies for repeating a cliche but " The biggest enemy of the trader is him/herself."
__________________
neil
....Indicators show the past. Price Action "Indicates" the future.
neil is offline  
Old May 29, 2008, 10:53pm   #44
Joined Dec 2007
Sorry to read about your losses.

As a newbie I really appreciate you having the balls to come forward and admit you got your approach horribly wrong. Most would throw in the towel and be to embarrassed to share these bad experiences.

I have made a personal commitment to myself not to trade for a good period of time until I have done as much research as possible. Know dont get me wrong I am itching to start trading but I know if I do then I will be gambling and there is a high probability i will get my **** kicked.

Thanks for putting this up as a sticky.

I really do hope you dont give up trading as I have to agree with some of the comments on here that you have just been given a big lesson in the psychology of trading.

Keep your chin up M8Y and then next you trade you will hopefully be more acclompished in your overall strategies.
robbiemac is offline  
Old May 29, 2008, 11:13pm   #45
Joined May 2008
Saying that a mechanical system will lead to long term loss is completely false, and i'm afraid this is something which is impossible to prove otherwise.
strongboes is offline  
Old May 30, 2008, 12:03am   #46
 
Masquerade's Avatar
Joined Nov 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by temptrader View Post
I was trying to steer the thread to reach this point but you said it for me.

"discipline, risk control, rules, 100% mechanical systems" will get you wiped out in the long run.

What do you mean by this? He should wildly punt instead, or just that it's not possible for him to win? Or is there some other meaning?
Masquerade is offline  
Old May 30, 2008, 2:21am   #47
2be
 
2be's Avatar
Joined Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masquerade View Post
What do you mean by this? He should wildly punt instead, or just that it's not possible for him to win? Or is there some other meaning?
I think that people that have not yet been profitable traders, or have hit a difficult patch in their own trading, and are presently generating more loses then profits, find it easier to project their own frustration/s in a form of "caring" advise that is nothing more but an undiluted scepticism rising from their own experience. In achieving that anything will do, and such an emotive term as "gumbling" will always do well irrespective of the context. You find them by saying many wise and necessary things in a way that is more negative then encouraging. It is so easy to behave like a circle of selfadorating judges having in front of them a half-confessing, injurred, distressed and disoriented newbee. Shall the newbee be burned on a stake, surely he has done something wrong. Who will then put the first match to the pile that resambles many of our own failings, mistakes and crashed hopes. Obviously it is easy to pontificate of some abstract perfect trader in terms that do not describe anything, apart from achieveving a right sound in trader correctness, paralel to its political cousin. Some say discipline is very important, others in spite of tonnes of evidence condemn it as a part of gumbling mindset, without any explanation. No wander the newbee after suffering losses is getting even more confused. Nobody says trading is easy, but in my opinion it is not helpfull to serve a coctail of well mixed half coocked ideas of how difficult it is to be a profitable trader without any attempt to explain them. Above all trading is for people too, and one does not have to be a martian to be a trader. I do not mean to upset anybody, but a positive word in season often proves to be an important stimulus in the overall developement of a trader.
Best wishes to all,
2be
PS. hope you are not on the other side of my short on the property index, as that would not help you to achieve much
__________________
For medium to longer TF perspective http://www.trade2win.com/boards/trad...henomenon.html
2be is offline  
Thanks! The following members like this post: Jaydee , portomar , Mathemagician
Old May 30, 2008, 7:38am   #48
Joined Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by zigglewigler View Post
Oh...you really are out of your depth.

Difference between gambling and trading? SpeadBETTING doesn't give you a clue. SpreadBETTING has nothing to do with trading. Spreadbets are a moronic product.

If you place a spreadbet you are being positioned against other spreadbet clients, in the same way sports betters are made part of the over-round, they are not in the game, spreadbetters are not in the market, only traders taking positions in futures, stocks or any other derivative, are in the market.
This is simply not always true. some of the spreadbetting firms out there are essentially set up on retail business practices rather than bookmakers ones. one of the spread bet companies i use simply uses your money to take a position in a corresponding future, and makes money on charging you more than they pay in the spread. this is why these companies want you to win, because you're more likely to keep betting, more likely to make them more money. The reality is that most people dont have the capital needed to start trading forex or options in margin accounts, at least at the start. even if they did, their capital would probably be so small that they might as well not "be in the game" you seem to imply by your post that you can influence the market by your position? any retail trader that thinks this is a fool. add to this the fact that in many countries profit from spreadbetting is not subject to tax while profit from options would be subject to cgt, and it becomes quite an attractive place to start. this guys problem is not what method he is using to call the market.
portomar is offline  
Old May 30, 2008, 4:20pm   #49
Joined May 2008
stop losses dude....i know how hard it is to stick to them....i hate it.....i always want to run the loss and see what happens....but have been nailed for 1400 in about ten minutes....you got to be so thourough. Just think "i like small losses"....and stick to the stops.
ucbestp is offline Software vendor  
Old May 30, 2008, 4:57pm   #50
2be
 
2be's Avatar
Joined Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by ucbestp View Post
stop losses dude....i know how hard it is to stick to them....i hate it.....i always want to run the loss and see what happens....but have been nailed for 1400 in about ten minutes....you got to be so thourough. Just think "i like small losses"....and stick to the stops.
What I ment was that the one of the flagship of US trading platforms Refco, just disappeared from the face of the earth, was US regulated and so on, rich in any cartificate you would ever wish to see. The accounts has been frosen for about two years, and I got a very little settlement from them, the divided leftovers by the time all have finished with them. Ironically I called it a Refco SL That is not my first experience with larger and well recognised US financial institution, and I shall stay away from them for a while. Some of my friends have also lost with them, well that is life. I wander what is better, being robbed or loosing it yourself?
Have a great weekend and best wishes to all,
2be
__________________
For medium to longer TF perspective http://www.trade2win.com/boards/trad...henomenon.html
2be is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How much can you make trading with £10k dimtrader First Steps 27 May 9, 2006 12:22pm
10k members rossored T2W Feedback & Announcements 15 Feb 29, 2004 11:36pm
£10k to £400k reactor The Foyer 6 Jun 10, 2003 2:34pm

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)